Lets go on an ego trip

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Ernest

You have a good batting line up, they have proved that, but leaving Anderson and Hoggard apart, Ricky Ponting and co, will fing batting against Harmison and Flintoff tough going, and groundsmen will prepare pitches in England favour.

They can't prepare pitches to suit Harmison and Flintoff without also preparing pitches to suit Warne (who loves bounce and pace) plus McGrath and Gilchrist... and they can't prepare pitches to suit Hoggard and Anderson without also preparing pitches to suit Kasprowicz.

Originally Posted by Ernest

I think there will be a draw or two, but I think Australia will lose it a Headingly, and it wont be the first time, or the second. I really cant see Australia beating england at Headingly.

I would agree that a classic Headingley pitch should see England win.. but not because our bowlers will excel more than the Aussie bowlers: if we win at Headingley it will surely be because our batsmen are marginally less likely to throw their wickets away on a wicket where runs are hard to come by.

I'm convinced that the Aussies would be in for a very tough contest if the pitches ALL made batting hell: I'm just not convinced that many of them have the temperament to grind out draws and wins when playing the expansive game isn't an option.

Sadly, Lords and the Oval are ideal Aussie pitches.. and Old Trafford / Trent bridge / Edgebaston are likely to suit both sides. England would actually do better using the Rose Bowl than the Oval / Lords... but that's not going to happen. Shame.

[Ernest]

I am sticking to what I have said before on this one, yes McGrath is a good bowler, no a very good bowler, but these days the plan has to be, don't take liberties with him, be boring if need be, but see him off.

Warne is different, I hope we have learned how to play him, Flintoff here is a key, if things go right, he is capable of knocking Warne out of the attack.

I know some are going to say he can't play spin, Sarwan got him a couple of times, but it is the part time bowlers he has underestimated in the past, good player Sarwan.

[Beny]

yes McGrath is a good bowler, no a very good bowler, but these days the plan has to be, don't take liberties with him, be boring if need be, but see him off.

I think NZ tried that. So did India.
You can't just see off a player like that. If he gets on top of you at any stage, has you on you're back foot and pushing at the ball you will eventualy get out or otherwise one of the other two will get you out after you decide you need to start pushing the run rate up to match it with the Aussie batsmen.

[Ernest]

I think Lords could be the one for a draw, the Oval may suit the Aussies better, because the pitch is true, and has lost some pace.
Headingly and Old Trafford, and I fancy England here, the piches are made for England.

I agree Trent bridge / Edgebaston are going to be the deciding battle grounds, Trent Bridge may spring a susprise or two.

I think Headingly is as good as giving England a one nil start, England have done well against the Aussies there, Off subject, that was the ground that started Bothams Ashes.
I will not count the one were some hooligan watered one end of the pitch, and Phil Edmunds had a field day.

Originally Posted by Rachael

I'm convinced that the Aussies would be in for a very tough contest if the pitches ALL made batting hell: I'm just not convinced that many of them have the temperament to grind out draws and wins when playing the expansive game isn't an option.

Hope you are wrong here, because I am taking into account that a draw would be probable at lords.

We differ on the bowling, I think England would do better than australia on Hellish pitches, that is the difference at this time.IMHO.

[Ernest]

I can't comment on india, I think they under performed, and that is taking nothing away from Australia.

New Zealand with respect Beny, are a very poor team at the moment, and can't be compared to England.

[Beny]

My point is that you cant simply expect to play out McGrath. Even if you do you've got Gillespie, Kaspa and warne to come.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Warne is different, I hope we have learned how to play him, Flintoff here is a key, if things go right, he is capable of knocking Warne out of the attack.

LOL - you have to be in WUM mode here Ernest.

One thing Flintoff likes is room to swing his arms.. and I guess you have a point in that Warne's slow enough that any bowler who uses his feet is going to be able to take a swipe at him.. but equally... he's so damned accurate that there's no width, there's nothing overpitched.. and there's nothing so short that it's easy to play off the back foot.

If you can see Flintoff doing what Clarke might do, picking the deliveries, then alternately dancing down the pitch (light on his feet) to get his head over the ball.. or picking the ball delicately off his stumps with late cuts... then so-be-it. I don't think the rest of us are expecting that.

My guess is that Flintoff will play Warne as he played Murali: badly. We'll see a big pad thrust a long way down the pitch to minimise the risk of being bowled / getting out LBW... and we'll see the big man basically tied in knotts.

Sadly.. if McGrath, Gilchrist and Kasprowicz are also denying him room to swing his arms.. your hero is likely to end up becalmed and unable to find his timing and rhythm. He might prove me wrong.. but my guess is that he's unlikely to thrive against that attack. Strikes me that his best work will be done against those attacks with weaker second string bowlers.

I'd back Strauss, Vaughan and Thorpe to be the mainstays of the batting for England, leaving Tresco, Flintoff and Jones to just be chip in the odd flurry when they can ride their luck.

[Ernest]

No I say what I do because Warne is a leggie, who unlike Murali turns the ball from the bat of a right hander, Flintoff is strong on the off side, and warne turns tha ball a lot, giving Flintoff the chance to drive on the off side, so long as he can pick his wrong one.

I cannot see flintoff going the way of other England batsmen, and nicking one to the keeper or slip, he hits the ball to hard for that.

If he can pick Warnes wrong one, he should get runs off Warne.

[Beny]

And what about the flipper and Slider. To be honest I have not seen aybody drive Warne for a long time. They ussualy either try to slog him on the leg side or cut him off the back foot.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Beny

England beat NZ and all of a sudden they should be number 1?

No I am just saying that England have a superior attack to New Zealand, and so will give you more of a game.