Shoaib should put up or shut up

[Beny]

Intereseting article in today's herald sun talking about how Shoaibs form against australia leaves much to be desired. His average is about 38 and aside from the 5-21 against Aus a few years ago his form against us has been dismal. After that bowling proformance he then got 1 wicket in the next match and went walkabout the match after.

[vvvrulz]

Shoaibs figures really depend on his mood. Half the time he can't be bothered it seems.

[Rachael]

Might have something to do with the fact that he doesn't actually do very much with the ball :-)

Surely you followed the stick following the first Test between Pakistan and India last time up: the groundsman actually prepared a decent pitch.. not something dry and dusty, but a beauty on which the Indian swing bowlers were able to make life very, very difficult for the Pakistan batsmen by getting a fair bit of lateral movement.

I think it was INzi who led the ranting: wanted the groundsman lynched on the grounds that the indian bowlers were good enough to exploit the conditions and the Pakistan bowlers (including Shoaib) were not.

Struck me then.. and strikes me now.. that he'd do better telling Shoaib to bugger off to an academy (or lock himself in the nets with Wasim Akram) and master his damn craft.. but so long as Shoaib bangs it down fast and straight then it seems that not even the captain is going to get overly upset that on a decent bowling pitch he's easily outshone by a kid like Pathan. :-(

[Maranello]

LOL Rachael, you really should research before generalising. I saw all of the Multan Test (Pak v Ind) and read umpteen reviews of it, no one could have called that pitch a "beauty". It was a flat, dead pitch with nothing in it for the bowlers. Pathan and Balaji did not get extravagant swing; just what good swing bowlers would be expected to get with a new cherry when the atmospheric conditions suit them - nothing to do with the pitch at all. Its another matter that most Pakistani batsmen are inept against decent swing of any kind, and the toss, and a few catches on Day 1 went against us: that was the reason we lost, not that the pitch was sub-standard or that Pathan bowled like an Akram, he did not.

On the topic: I think Shoaib's main shortcomings over his career have been twofold: attitude and fitness. The former has been resolved to a great extent over the past few months, Woolmer has helped, but the main influence was Imran Khan. According to Woolmer, Shoaib is a changed man since his lengthy heart to heart with Imran during the Calcutta one-day in November.

His second shortcoming, fitness, is still a concern, and will take time to sort out, if at all. The miles long run-up, the effort put into every delivery, and his injurt history, all do not allow him to bowl long spells. His threat is greatly diminished when batsmen know that he will only bowl for a 6 over spell, and then rest for a while before his next spell! Much easier to play him out that way, knowing however unplayable he is in those six overs (and he frequently is when on song), he cannot last.

The other problem with Shoaib is his big mouth, there are quite a few threads on the Pakistan forum discussing this, you are welcome to contribute there. Waqar Younis a year or two ago had told Akhtar to: "shut up and bowl mate". So this is an old issue. A few months ago the PCB stopped him from giving unsolicited media comment etc, and that has greatly improved matters, in one of the latest articles on Akhtar in one of the Aussie newspapers, he refused to be drawn into any quotes, and said he will let the ball do the talking - the way it should be.

[Zainub]

Couldn't have agreed with M more here, Multan pitch was in Sherry's terminology as dead as a dodo. Sehwag murdered us, but it could have been a different story had we held all our catches. We actually if people bother to remember scored over 400 runs in our first innings. India bowled ous out twice by virtue of sheer pressure of runs, with Kumble exploting the roughness of the surface from day 3 and 4 onwards. I don't think either Balaji or Pathan bowled anything near what you will call breathtaking swing bowling. You saw an example of that in the next test when Umar Gul surprised to India to take 5 wickets. That pitch was not conducive to fast bowling. Even Balahi and Pathan will tell you that Rachael.

Secondly, I also agree that Shoaib is now a changed man, much more involved in the team ethic than he has been ever before in his career. About him needing to go and learn how to master his craft. You have to understand Rachael, that Shoaib is not, and I repeat NOT a swing bowler, his bigest asset is his pace, and he is a master at that craft already. He just needs more consistency. And he's consistently working on that aspect. Unlike Wasim, his main forte is not swinging the ball, although he does rely heavily on reverse swing, with the new ball Shoaib will trouble batsmen more often that not singlehandedly because of extra pace, forcing batsmen on the back foot and enforcing the false stroke, unless there is excessive cloud cover or grass on the pitch lateral movement from his bowling will be minimal. He's not a swing bowler Racheal, he is a fast bowler, whose job is to take wickets by bowling fast.

And I don't really bother if the rest of the world agrees or not, but the fact remains that he's done a fantastic job for us in general, and his career statistics are still as good as anyone's in world cricket right now. If people think he's a "Show Pony" or whatever and he talks too much, we'll may be does, but I couldn't be less bothered, because he STILL remains the best bowler we have, and he STILL wins us a lot of matches, and there is no reason what so ever for him to be not in the side. He's our best bowler by far, he has his tantrums at times, which aren't always I admit welcome, but for the sheer reason of how effective he can be on his day, I'm willing to stand all that, if other's can't, its there problem, not ours. I'm fine with Shaoib. And I'll always be as long as he's doing the job for our team.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Maranello

LOL Rachael, you really should research before generalising. I saw all of the Multan Test (Pak v Ind) [..] Pathan and Balaji did not get extravagant swing; just what good swing bowlers would be expected to get with a new cherry when the atmospheric conditions suit them - nothing to do with the pitch at all.

Its [...] not that the pitch was sub-standard or that Pathan bowled like an Akram, he did not.

LOL - I followed the reaction to that match very closely indeed.. and whilst there may be much that's true in what you say... especially about how not even Pathan could have RELISHED the pitch....ALL the media coverage I saw was focussed on rants by people in the Pakistan heirachy (including, I am pretty sure, Inzi) about the fact that the groundsman had produced a pitch that played into the hands of Indian seamers who could get some swing.. and (equally significantly) offered nothing to the home pacement who were nothing without a pitch offering pace and bounce.

I don't know that Pathan necessarily had the ball swinging around corners.. but he DID get acclaim for getting lateral movement (something he's actually been getting again recently: I read the other day that Wasim Akram was seen absolutely purring at the sight of Pathan's mastery of swing).

ps. just checked up on verdicts on Pathan's bowling in that Test... and very quickly found refernces to the movement he was getting.. a comparison between his wrist action and that of Wasim Akram's.... and a compliment on his bouncers demontrating more brain than braun.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Zainub Razvi

That pitch was not conducive to fast bowling. Even Balahi and Pathan will tell you that Rachael.

Agreed... for a bowler with nothing to offer but pace it really sucked.. which is why both Akhtar AND Sami had a torrid time. The pitch WAS such that Pathan could get a good shape on his deliveries though.. and whilst it wasn't so favourable that he was able to produce unplayable deliveries.. it was favourable enough for him to build HUGE pressure.

Originally Posted by Zainub Razvi

He's not a swing bowler Racheal, he is a fast bowler, whose job is to take wickets by bowling fast

Lindwall bowled fast.. but he also moved the ball (reputedly) 12" either way at full pace. Wasim Akram was a fast bowler who was also a master of swing. Being fast and doing nothing with the ball might be better than being slow and doing nothing with the ball... but it isn't a substitute for mastering the craft and being fast AND good.

All good seam bowlers should be looking to master lateral movement: they don't have to get prodigious movement.. and some of the best make do with just the merest hint of movement... but all that can do genuinely look for movement. Even Roberts (not bad on the pace front, not known for bending the ball around corners) looked for swing - turning the ball as it went behind his back so that the batsmen had no idea which way he was shaping the ball.

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Rachael

LOL - I followed the reaction to that match very closely indeed.. and whilst there may be much that's true in what you say... especially about how not even Pathan could have RELISHED the pitch....ALL the media coverage I saw was focussed on rants by people in the Pakistan heirachy (including, I am pretty sure, Inzi) about the fact that the groundsman had produced a pitch that played into the hands of Indian seamers who could get some swing.. and (equally significantly) offered nothing to the home pacement who were nothing without a pitch offering pace and bounce.

Originally Posted by Inzamam on the post match conference

....Our main strength is our bowling and we didn't bowl well throughout the match. The pitch was criticised a lot but I have played here for 12-13 years and the pitches haven't been much different here. We have won games on pitches like these before and if we had bowled like the Indians did, we could have done well.....Having played for so long here, I have never seen a greentop here, but we should not become obsessed by the wickets. We should look at our own weaknesses and try and eliminate them.

The complete report on the Pakistan Team's reaction to that test can be seen here

That hardly seems like a "rant" Rachael. I'm exteremly disapointed that you have blamed Inzamam for whinning about the flatness of the Multan pitch, there was talk about it the local press, there always is, because that is what the press is there for, but Inzamam for once is the last person I would expect to moan about the pitches. Pakistan loss that test because we didn't bowl well enough, not because the pitch wasn't suited to our type of bowling.

[Maranello]

Another Shoaib Akhtar admirer...

Former Australian Test great Dennis Lillee has already warned against writing Pakistan off and Australian opener Justin Langer agrees, maintaining any team which includes Shoaib Akhtar in its attack will be dangerous.

Akhtar bowled just 17 overs in short bursts over the three days of the match against Western Australia but Langer said the Pakistanis were using him perfectly.

"If I was the captain of Pakistan I would bowl Shoaib (Akhtar) exactly how they do bowl him," he said.

"I'd bowl him in short bursts ... I'd have him running in and bowling as fast as he could even if it's only three or four-over spells because I can assure you that he's the guy you worry about when you go to bed at night."

[Beny]

I read the other day that Wasim Akram was seen absolutely purring at the sight of Pathan's mastery of swing).

No doubt... Wasim taught him everything he knows.
I think this guy is going to get better and better until he is the best seamer in the world. Most exciting young bolwer in world cricket as far as I'm concerned.