Lilee/Thompson Vs McGrath/Warne.?

[bevo]

cant go past warne and mcgrath at least in test matches ,look at their wickets , i havnt got stats but i know warne and mcgrath have the most wickets together than anyone , i suppose the next one would be murali and chaminda vaas

[Zainub]

might be wasim or waqar too you know, wasim I think took about 400 wickets, waqar something in the range of 350, so we're looking at total of 750 wickets

[Leafy Seadragon]

Ernest,
You've asked two questions in your original post and I think the answer to them differs:

Originally Posted by Ernest

Who has been the most valuable for Australia in recent times(relative), the legendary Australian pace duo, Denis Lilee, and G Thompson, or Glen McGrath and Shayne Warne.

In answer to this, Thommo & Lillee were highly valuable to the Aussies in that, for a short period of time, they provided the Aussies with the best attack in the world to support probably the best batting side (discounting the exhiled Saffers); they were fundamental in Kerry Packers thinking regarding the establishment of World Series Cricket and were probably much of the inspiration for future quicks (partly because after they departed, the Aussies couldn't win a raffle even with all the tickets) and have rightly passed into legend status.

However, McGrath and Warne have been responsible (admittedly not singlehandedly) for arguably the greatest Aussie team of all time. The length of time that these bowlers have time and again bowled at the highest level and delivered for Australia ultimately make it a non-contest.

However, with regards to:

Originally Posted by Ernest

Which duo would you like to take to England this summer, to make sure Australia keep the Ashes.

I would happily take either duo at their peak. Sure the Packer Circus & injuries took their toll on Lillee & Thommo, but at their peak they were in a league that few would match. Thommo could be a bit erratic, but managed sustained pace that noone matches today (Aktar might for a few overs, but generally cannot maintain it for sufficient overs to sustain pressure, and even then look what he is capable of achieving). He may have also been one-dimensional, but point out one test captain that wouldn't trade that off for the sheer pace he offered consistently at his peak. Lillee I think is at least the equal of McGrath at their respective peaks (stats / PWC ratings etc aside as these present only part of the picture). Both have great bowling brains, both took/take high calibre wickets, both had/have incredible control over line & length, Lillee extra pace and McGrath extra bounce. For years McGrath was under-rated, but has proven to be something special. For many years through the seventies, so was Lillee. Too tough to call. Oh yeah, that spinner guy, Warne. He's pretty useful too...

Backed by a combination of Gillespie and either Kaspa or MacGill (depending on the duo), I would happily back either of these duos (and combined bowling lineups) at their peak to destroy virtually any batting lineup more often than not. I look forward to the last attempt by Pigeon and Warnie to do just that

[bevo]

noone will ever beat the likes of mcgrath and warne , not even murali , or danesh kaneria who will be a very good player when his in his prime.

[Wiljoy]

I saw nearly all the Thompson -Lillee matches,and my answer will infuriate a lot of people.
They were a great pair of bowlers,but Lillee was the best of the two,and he was harder to score runs from,consequently,when they were bowling in tandem,the batsmen knew they would have trouble scoring from Lillee,so they had to have a go against Tommo,and that is how he got a lot of his wickets.

I think a similar situation arose in England,with FrankTyson,when he was in the team with either Truman or Statham,it was easier for the batsmen to score against Frank,than against Freddie or Brian,these two were far more accurate than Frank,

In the situation of McGrath & Warne,it is exactly the opposite,they equally as good as each other,so if one of them doesn't get you the other one will.!!!

[Teatime FatCat]

Hi Wiljoy, welcome to the board! I'm reading Fred's biography t the moment, and it's a riveting read. It sort of supports your point that Trueman was pretty accurate and not that easy to score off, whilst he also steadily picked up wickets. He mentions that Statham was similar. I'd love to have seen him bowl - I wonder who in modern cricket is most like him now?

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Wiljoy

I saw nearly all the Thompson -Lillee matches,and my answer will infuriate a lot of people.
They were a great pair of bowlers,but Lillee was the best of the two,and he was harder to score runs from,consequently,when they were bowling in tandem,the batsmen knew they would have trouble scoring .

Welcome Wiljoy,
With respect to Warne and McGrath, however great they have been, Lillee and Thompson will always be remembered by myself for changing the face of cricket, because I know there had been other speedsters before them, but with these two, others tried to emulate them, of coutse the West Indies bowlers had a great deal of succsess.

Originally Posted by Wiljoy

I think a similar situation arose in England,with FrankTyson,when he was in the team with either Truman or Statham,it was easier for the batsmen to score against Frank,than against Freddie or Brian,these two were far more accurate than Frank

Well not quite similar, Trueman and Statham where the most formidable England opening bowling attack, but was way different to Lillee and Thompson, although Trueman was labled "fiery Fred", and was pretty fast, could swing the ball, Brian Statham on the other hand was not as fast, Truaman could intimidate, statham did not, but that made them even more effective, because much as they woulld have liked, batsmen would have liked to relax against Statham, but he was to accurate to take advantage off.
I have seen all four play, though Trueman and Statham is a bit vaugue, as I was very young at the time, I remember Lillee and Thommo well enough though.

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat 45805

I wonder who in modern cricket is most like him now?

Hi Teatime,
Yes Trueman is good to read about, he was a bit of a lad, and was not averse to a little sledging, or giving the evil eye, as it was in those days.
He was the original rebel, bad boy of English cricket, needed disciplinary action at times did Fred, both at country and county level.
I remember when he was commentating, he was not the sort of chap who would use a word like "circumspect", he would be more likely to tell them to hurry it up, yep quite a man.
Who is like him now in English Cricket?, no one I dont think, let me know if you find someone.

[Wiljoy]

I have read every ( I think) book Freddie has written, and on his own admission,used to come out with some "Yorkshire coal-miners language, the one I smile about the most,was when a new batsman came in,Fred would say to him,"tha can tak that smile of thi face sunshine,tha'll soon be back in't pavilion wi thi mates!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Wiljoy

I have read every ( I think) book Freddie has written, and on his own admission,used to come out with some "Yorkshire coal-miners language, the one I smile about the most,was when a new batsman came in,Fred would say to him,"tha can tak that smile of thi face sunshine,tha'll soon be back in't pavilion wi thi mates!

Yep broad Yorkshire, I live just at the other side of the Pennines, about 50 mile away "Lancashire", but our accents are much different, people used to speak muck broader than they used to.
There is an Aussie "Kevin Bloody Wilson", now his acent cracks me up.

Si thi lad or lass as us northerers might say.

[DavidIg]

Originally Posted by Ernest

But for me the Greatest duo of all times were without doubt, Lilee and Thompson, the role models of all pace attacks for decades.

Anyone disagree?.

For sheer excitement, I don't think you can beat Lilee and Tommo.
I think the reason Lilee is so highly regarded is that he was a great when the rest of the world had good teams.
Apart from Englands performance in the Ashes this yr, when has any team in the last 10yrs been close to Australia?
It would seem to me that for whatever reason, Australia has produced something like 30-50 world class players over the last 10yrs, not all of them made the test team{some did}, but the rest of the world struggled to produce 11 world class players in any one team.