Lilee/Thompson Vs McGrath/Warne.?

[Ernest]

Thinking cap time here Beny , we have crossed swords many times over Glen McGrath.

Question is, and could be harder for the younger posters, but no doubt will have read articles, and seen videos.

Who has been the most valuable for Australia in recent times(relative), the legendary Australian pace duo, Denis Lilee, and G Thompson, or Glen McGrath and Shayne Warne.

I have always liked Warne, undesputed the best spin bowler ever, IMO just ahead of Murali, and Bedi.

But for me the Greatest duo of all times were without doubt, Lilee and Thompson, the role models of all pace attacks for decades.

Anyone disagree?.

Which duo would you like to take to England this summer, to make sure Australia keep the Ashes.

[redback]

Lillee and Thomo but only just you can hear the fear in Tony Greigs voice when he talks about them Warne has bowled the best ball of all time the look on Gattings face said it all

[Beny]

Hmmm... Well here's a good one.

Not all that hard though.

Whilst Dennis Lille is arguably the best ever-The supreame combination of pace, accuracy and movement- Thommo was really a man of his time. Aided by the lack of padding and helmets he could scare a batsmen with death however his stats show up how effective he really was. With an average of 28.00 and an economy of 3.18 he could scare the **** out of most batsmen and taking wickets at the same time he generaly got out of it preety well.

Statisticly Warne is a better bowler but it is the economy rates that really show the power of the McGrath-Warne patnership. Both have less than 3 runs an over scored of them and the preassure this applies to the batsmen is enourmous, not to mention that their wicket taking ability matches or even exceedes that of thompson and Lille. Statisticly Warne and McGrath have a better strike rate, economy rate and average than thommo and Lille.

So it's simple really, the intelligence and subtleness of Warne and McGrath eaisily outdoes the raw pace and territying power of Lille and Thommo.

How you feeling about the Ashes Ern?

[Beny]

http://cricketratings.pwcglobal.com/cricket/cricket.htm

McGrath vs Lille

hmm well that did'nt work... But anyway go to the site an check it out.. McGrath is better.

[Rachael]

Thomson's the weak link here: not really fit to mention in the same breath as Lille, McGrath or Warne (or even Gillespie for that matter).

His PWC ratings tell the story:

[03/01/1976 778 vs West Indies at Sydney 
23/01/1976 803 vs West Indies at Adelaide 
31/01/1976 784 vs West Indies at Melbourne 
24/12/1976 779 vs Pakistan at Adelaide 
16/06/1977 782 vs England at Lord's 
07/07/1977 780 vs England at Manchester 
28/07/1977 763 vs England at Nottingham 
11/08/1977 768 vs England at Leeds 
25/08/1977 768 vs England at The Oval 
02/12/1977 779 vs India at Brisbane 
16/12/1977 781 vs India at Perth 
30/12/1977 758 vs India at Melbourne 
07/01/1978 770 vs India at Sydney 
28/01/1978 772 vs India at Adelaide 
03/03/1978 773 vs West Indies at Port-of-Spain 
17/03/1978 798 vs West Indies at Bridgetown 
31/03/1978 795 vs West Indies at Georgetown 
15/04/1978 758 vs West Indies at Port-of-Spain 
28/04/1978 742 vs West Indies at Kingston

Thompson managed to sustaina respectable rating for just 18 tests: the 2 in Jan 76 weren't followed until the December of that year.. and in truth June 1977 to April 1978 was his time in the sun: that's less than a year. Sure, in that year the deadly duo were almost a match for McGrath and Warne now.

The thing Lillee and Thomson DID do.. which McGrath and Warne did not.. is peak at the same time: Warne's best years came early in his career. His rating went from 147 to 812 in one year in 1993.. and his spell around the 870-900 mark was past by the end of 1994. It's true that he maintained a dmn fine rating until 1998.. but by contrast... McGrath's rating didn't hit the 800s until a series int he WI that was Nov 96-March 97.. and his sensational run at / around the 900 mark didn't start for a furth 4 years (by which time Warne was a shadow of his former self).

With all that said.. Shane Warne over the last 2 years (a decade on from his peak) has a better rating than Thommo did in his very, VERY best 2 year.. see the figures since 2002:

02/01/2002 680 South Africa Sydney 
22/02/2002 718 South Africa Johannesburg 
08/03/2002 731 South Africa Cape Town 
15/03/2002 737 South Africa Durban 
03/10/2002 766 Pakistan Colombo (PSS) 
11/10/2002 810 Pakistan Sharjah 
19/10/2002 819 Pakistan Sharjah 
07/11/2002 809 England Brisbane 
21/11/2002 825 England Adelaide 
29/11/2002 812 England Perth 
08/03/2004 756 Sri Lanka Galle 
16/03/2004 793 Sri Lanka Kandy 
24/03/2004 777 Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC) 
01/07/2004 758 Sri Lanka Darwin 
09/07/2004 762 Sri Lanka Cairns 
06/10/2004 735 India Bangalore 
14/10/2004 747 India Chennai 
26/10/2004 748 India Nagpur 
18/11/2004 773 New Zealand Brisbane 
26/11/2004 750 New Zealand Adelaide 
16/12/2004 758 Pakistan Perth 
26/12/2004 752 Pakistan Melbourne 
02/01/2005 732 Pakistan Sydney

Add in the fact that McGrath's now back up in the 860's 870s.. and McGrath and Warne NOW look a real match for Lillee and Thomson at their best... but let's face it.. had Warne and McGrath peaked together - wow!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Beny

So it's simple really, the intelligence and subtleness of Warne and McGrath eaisily outdoes the raw pace and territying power of Lille and Thommo.

How you feeling about the Ashes Ern?

A lot better Beny knowing lille and Thommo, are not of the plane , McGrath and Warne will be enough to make ie a good contest

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Ernest

A lot better Beny knowing lille and Thommo, are not of the plane

Thing is, Ernest.. Gillespie's rating record in the last calender yer is at least as Thomson's was when Thomson was at his very, very best :-D

04/12/2003 775 India Brisbane 
 12/12/2003 756 India Adelaide 
 02/01/2004 751 India Sydney 
 08/03/2004 732 Sri Lanka Galle 
 16/03/2004 747 Sri Lanka Kandy 
 24/03/2004 746 Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC) 
 01/07/2004 739 Sri Lanka Darwin 
 09/07/2004 740 Sri Lanka Cairns 
 06/10/2004 743 India Bangalore 
 14/10/2004 741 India Chennai 
 26/10/2004 796 India Nagpur 
 03/11/2004 793 India Mumbai 
 18/11/2004 785 New Zealand Brisbane 
 26/11/2004 807 New Zealand Adelaide 
 16/12/2004 781 Pakistan Perth 
 26/12/2004 792 Pakistan Melbourne 
 02/01/2005 774 Pakistan Sydney

So it's a bit like facing McGrath, Warne AND Thomson!

[Ernest]

The thing is Rachael you are correct at this moment in time, but when Lille and Thompson bowled together, the fear factor came into play, I think it would be fair to say, the englang players were scared of them.

You would be more corect, if all four were playing today, if you see what I mean, and I am not doubting your figures, but I think the England players who lived in fear of Thommo, would rather have played McGrath or Warne, it was pathetic to watch.

[Beny]

The fear factor did not change their effectivness. Warne, McGrath and Gillespie are better than Lille and Thommo. As I've pointed out, it is WMG's (Warne, McGrath,Gillespie) ability to strangle runs whilst still taking wickets, that makes them such a fantastic team.

[Paoli]

Are the PWC ratings absolute gospel as to whose the better cricketer??