Vaughn versus Ponting "head to head"

[acker]

Michael Pual Vaughan
DOB 29/10/1974
TESTS
(including 21/01/2005)
..........................M I NO Runs HS Ave ....SR ..100 50 Ct St
Batting & Fielding 55 99 8 4023 197 44.20 51.03 13 12 34 0

Ricky Thomas Ponting
DOB 19/12/1974
TESTS
(including 02/01/2005)
.........................M .I ..NO Runs .HS .Ave...... SR ..100 50 .Ct St
Batting & Fielding 85 138 18 6657 257 55.47 58.19 21 26 101 0

[Seamer]

When we look back in 15 years time, we will view Ponting as one of the all time greats and most succesful captains in history. Vaughan will be some obscure former English captain who was dumped from the English team after thier demolishing in the 2005 ashes

[John]

Very harsh Seamer.
Vaughan is a good batsmen but he is a bit of a puzzle.
Why has his performance gone down since being made capitain? Ray Illingworth was against him becoming England capitain.
His one day batting is also a puzzle? He just doesn't cut it. Now Ern talks about bad mangement this in my view is bad they should relieve of the one day captaincy.
But the way Vaughan conducts himself after the match ( interviews etc) is excellent. He is very objective and generous to opposition. He never comes across as arrogant.

[Seamer]

You are right John. Just a little dig at our English friends on this Forum to see if i could get a reaction. I actually like Vaughan as a person and am a fan of him as a test batsman. You are right as far as his ODI captaincy goes. Both M.Taylor and S.Waugh became purely test captains in this country and it worked. England should do the same.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Seamer

You are right as far as his ODI captaincy goes. Both M.Taylor and S.Waugh became purely test captains in this country and it worked. England should do the same.

I agree Seamer Vaughan should not even be in the one day team, he is at heart a Test Cricketer, and the more he loses in the one day format, the more likely he is to carry this form into Test Cricket.

I don't mind one day cricket, but I do wish they would keep it seperate from the five day game, and I mean seperate.
Different players, capptain and, a different manager, the big benefit of this would be, apart from Dunkan Fletcher, we would have some lateral thinking fron the one day managment,new players to look at, more players would develop at international level IMHO.

[Alison]

Originally Posted by Seamer

Just a little dig at our English friends on this Forum to see if i could get a reaction.

I thought the whole idea of having separate forums for each country and having them bound by the 'sanctuary rule' was so that people didn't post things deliberately intending to wind them up.

To prevent threads being spoiled by slanging matches opposition supporters or non-fans may not post provocative comments on opposition forums about their team or players - even in jest.

[Zainub]

I think it will be more relevant to compare their batting stats since they've been captain. Both Punter and Virgil average significantly lesser playing as captain then they do as a non-captaining player

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Alison

I thought the whole idea of having separate forums for each country and having them bound by the 'sanctuary rule' was so that people didn't post things deliberately intending to wind them up.

Very well noted, Alison: I have nothing to say on this particular matter as it {a} has not been reported / complained about; and {b} has not (as a result) been discussed by the moderators - but your understanding of the sanctuary rule is essentially correct.

It's not that the mods turn a blind eye to stuff that isn't reported.. merely that we don't want the sort of sterile discussions that might result if everyone was tip-toeing around each other, scared to cause offense: we don't want threads to degenerate into slanging matches.. but we would not want to be accused of jumping down everyone's throats and stiffling good natured banter and robust discussion.

Hope that clarifies matters: if your not happy with something - report it!

[Chuck Palumbo]

Originally Posted by Seamer

When we look back in 15 years time, we will view Ponting as one of the all time greats and most succesful captains in history. Vaughan will be some obscure former English captain who was dumped from the English team after thier demolishing in the 2005 ashes

Who knows Seamer? In 15 years time, we could be looking at Ponting as that captain that relinquished the Ashes after 18 years(whatever year it was when we last won it) and Vaughan will be looked back on as the captain that finally won back the Ashes from the Aussies.

In other words...if England win this summer, Vaughan's name will be in the history books for all the right reason...and Ponting will be in the history books for all the wrong reasons. This summer could be the making of Vaughan, but he knows if we lose, his status won't change...Ponting on the otherhand knows that if his team lose...they will go down in folklore as the team that lost the Ashes.

See England have everything to gain and nothing to lose...Australia have everything to lose and not much to gain. There is only one team that is under pressure...and that is Australia.

[acker]

Originally Posted by Ernest

I agree Seamer Vaughan should not even be in the one day team, he is at heart a Test Cricketer, and the more he loses in the one day format, the more likely he is to carry this form into Test Cricket.

Big call Ernest, the dropping of Steve Waugh from the Australian one day side was probably the beginning of his demise.
He was not happy about being dropped from the one dayers and his test form started to wane from about then as well.
On the up side though, it gave Ponting the opportunity to be eased into the Test captaincy via the one day captaincy.
Would you risk Vaughan being phycologically shattered if he was dropped from the one dayers?
On the up side it would provide the opportunity for someone like Trescothwick or Flintoff to be tested in a captaincy role, and become a handy and ready made back up should Vaughan suffer a future form slump.