Ashes Bowling attack

[Ernest]

Have Australia got any giants in the bowling department any more?,(warne appart) I am not to sure, like I keep saying Australia have relied on McGrath for a long time.
OK he has had some good returns of late, but New Zealand at the moment are in a mess, Pakistan have lost their stars (Australia should take heed of the plight of Pakistan, in the process of rebuilding their team), and I feel sorry for India, talk about an unlucky side.

I think the England bowling attack on form (and you can say that about any team) is the best in the world today, if I was Australia I would not read to much into Harmisons pathetic performance in South Africa, the man had "freaked out".

England have a long and stready batting line up, goes right down to Giles, Australia had a very strong batting line up, I don't doubt that, but I want to see them tested against Harmison at his best, and Flintoff at his most aggresive (I would not like to be an Australian left hander facing Flintoff).
So was my post dreamy Rachael, or was I dwelling on a real English challange.

[acker]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Not sure about the Aussie openers of late, but the Aussie batsmen are good, but Rachael they will have to be, if England are on song, they will face a more deadly attack than they have for years.

Dont know Ernest if I would consider the English attack as good as the last "deadly" attacks I remember Australia facing being West Indies mid 90's Ambrose & Walsh:and Pakistan mid - late 90's Akram & Younis:
Maybe I would consider the English attack more in line with South Africa late 90's Donald & Pollock

Originally Posted by Ernest

Not this last two years it won't IMHO, who have Australia beat of late?, Pakistan still rebuilding, an unlucky India, a New Zealand team that England had demoralised.

You can only win a game once Ernest, which they did. How is it that the 3-1 series win against "India" in "India" is to be considered "lucky" ?

From what I saw of England's scramble against a re-building South Africa , I cannot understand the mighty pre-ashes heights that you are elevating this English team to.

I will admit that England has moved forward from the last ashes in England campaign (they finally let go of their mediocre dinosaur security blanket Alec Stewart). I consider Harmison a threat , but not Flintoff or Hoggard. And I dont even rate Giles.

But I wont stand in the way of letting an English cricket fan have their moment of glee and satisfaction.

Enjoy it cobber, sink a couple pints, sing the team song, and dream of the glorious England ashes win.

Because come July, when Shane Warnes doing his beer soaked pole dance celebrating another Aussie series win, the English cricket fans lot in life will revert to being the same cold and desolate landscape it was just after the last ashes series.

A bit like "Groundhog Day"

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by acker

Dont know Ernest if I would consider the English attack as good as the last "deadly" attacks I remember Australia facing being West Indies mid 90's Ambrose & Walsh:and Pakistan mid - late 90's Akram & Younis:
Maybe I would consider the English attack more in line with South Africa late 90's Donald & Pollock

I won't argue with that, in fact that is what I have been saying for ages.

Originally Posted by acker

You can only win a game once Ernest, which they did. How is it that the 3-1 series win against "India" in "India" is to be considered "lucky" ?

Well I might be being unfair to say Australia where lucky, more India wher unlucky in respect had they won that rain hit game, their spitits may have gone sky high, who knows?.

Originally Posted by avker

From what I saw of England's scramble against a re-building South Africa , I cannot understand the mighty pre-ashes heights that you are elevating this English team to.

Two things here, England got done out of one game with that silly light rule, they went of for bad light in full sunshine, we would have won that game, and Harmison our main bowler, was homesick, and his stats were as well.

Originally Posted by acker

I will admit that England has moved forward from the last ashes in England campaign, I consider Harmison a threat , but not Flintoff or Hoggard. And I dont even rate Giles.

You don't rate Flintoff, fair enough but England would not have beat South Africa without him, dont forget Harmison was worse that useless, and Flintoff was injured to boot.
Another thing about Flintoff he bowls well against left handers, he is quick and has a good line against them, Brian Lara could not handle him.
So lets say Australias batsmen are running away with it, Flintoff will change mode, and bowl just back of a length, hard to score of such a player at his pace at that length.
So enter Giles, not the best in the world, and a lot don't rate him, but as India found out, he can bowl a good defensive line, he won't get batsmen out with that line, but slog him at your peril.
So Flintoff bowling with Giles defensive, will frustrate the batsmen, they either be patient, or get out.
At time after a tight spell, another bowler gets the wicket as the batsmen relax, Oh and lets not forget Flintoff can smash a bowler out of the attack.

Originally Posted by acker

But I wont stand in the way of letting an English cricket fan have their moment of glee and satisfaction.

What when we have won the Ashes back .

PS You don't rate Hoggard, to be honest he is not the top of my list, but if the overhead conditions are right, different bowler, pity about global warming.

[acker]

What's happened to Simon Jones: Ernest

Last ashes down here when he got injured , I thought that come the next ashes campaign he and Harmison would have formed a formidable and very fast pace partnership.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by acker

What's happened to Simon Jones: Ernest

To be honest acker, I think they brought him back into the England team to soon after that injury, he looked unfit and tired.

After a bit of a rest, he did bowl some decent spells, without ever being flat out, makes me wonder if he will ever be the same.

But after this long break if he is back to his best, that will be a great bonus for England, we will know soon, but that injury was bad.

[Paoli]

I dont know how to vote Beny, when you have a look at the talented guys we have in the team.

We have Warne who speaks for himself; champion leg-spinner, possibly the best bowler of all time, and at 35 doesn't cease to bamboozle batsman. Five hundred and seventy odd test wickets and a huge showing against New Zealand strengthen his claim to be the biggest threat in the Australian team.

What about McGrath, Ern especially? Yes, he is 35 years old but is bowling as well as ever. I don't think age matters at all when you are like McGrath...in ODI's, the former no.2 team New Zealand, smashed him around for, yes, fourteen off ten overs. McGrath also took four wickets, including the winning one in that game not all that long ago...About 3 months ago, he took career best figures of 8-24 against Pakistan at Perth, only Kasper had to come and spoil the party. Many people on this forum predicted this was a flash in the pan, but clearly it isn't. Nobody can hit McGrath around with ease....In India, Glenn McGrath had a brilliant series, sharing the new ball with Gillespie. Against Pakistan and NZ, he has shown he needs not youth, but experience, control and a brilliant mind to take wickets. I prefer to think of McGrath as a fine wine; getting better with age.

Then you've got Dizzy Gillespie, who has been the most unlucky bowler in the world recently. The amount of times Gilchrist and Warne and Ponting as well as Hayden have put down his catches in recent months has been unjustified. Dizzy has looked Australia's biggest threat early in games, and is definitely getting it right. You cannot say Dizzy needs to get it right; he just needs a little bit of luck and I reckon will have a ripper Ashes series. He seems to have overcome his injury problems; he hasn't missed a test for the whole year and his 250 odd test wickets is more than any current England player in the team.

Last but not least, Michael Kasprowicz, who has been playing for Glamorgan for about the last decade and has been county cricket's premier bowler over that period of time. He knows the English conditions better than anybody in the team, and has been performing exceptionally with the ball lately. Just notched up his 100th test scalp and looks set for a big Ashes. 8 years ago, he took an Ashes 7-fer in England. Kasper will continue his run in this Ashes.

Then of course, you have Lee, Tait and MacGill.

I don't know how to vote....All of the above I'd suggest!!!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

What about McGrath, Ern especially? Yes, he is 35 years old but is bowling as well as ever. I don't think age matters at all when you are like McGrath.

With respect Paoli, that can't be right, at 35 there is only one way to go, happens in every sport, players, even great players like McGrath get slower, not the menace he once was, he can't be at 35.
Even in the gentle game of snooker, the once mighty invincible Steve Davies had to give way to younger players, I think in his low 30s.
Look at it from McGraths point of view, when he was a younger man of say 28/29 he could keep running in forhis captain, but get in your 30s, you may have it up there, but the old legs won't do the same, same for everyone.

[John]

For once Ern I agree entirely. Until they find a drug Father Time has its say.

[Beny]

That's compleate bull guys... You're living in a fantasy. McGrath has proven time and time again, that he is infact better now than he was before. We've had this disscussion and you're arguments always end up being centered around, 'because it's happend before it must happen again'.


WRONG... It hasent happend yet.

[Leafy Seadragon]

John & Ern (& Beny), I don't think anyone's debating that age will catch up with McGrath, Warne, etc. The debate centres around when. There's a few schools of thought - Ern's seems to be that once a quick has lost the edge off his pace (typically happens around 32/3), he's ready for the scrapheap. Rachael in previous discussions has highlighted that numerous bowlers actually seem to go better with age, improving there bowling skills, until some time later, they slide off the map as their body loses its ability to implement the more sublime seaming skills, or they lose the desire to wake up in pain every second day.

Now given that Imran was still doing the rounds at 39 (I honestly can't remember how good his bowling was at that point) and Courtney Walsh was 38 (he was still a useful bowler even as an 'elder statesman'), there seems to be a limit range of say 32-38 for most bowlers. McGrath being one of the better bowlers ever and I would suggest comparable to Imran & Courtney, relying on guile & bounce rather than pace, there's no reason to doubt that, barring injury, he could readily continue as an exceptional bowler for at least another year as he's currently 35 (and 67 days).

There's no guarantees that he'll play on past tomorrow (at 35 injuries tend to be final), but if he does, there's no reason to expect a rapid decline in his skills - his recent injury recovery suggests that his body is still holding together pretty damn well. What is likely to limit him is his ability to implement those skills and I think that he's reasonably got a season or possibly two left based on an assessment of his skills and a look at precendence, rather than emotional (desperate?) hopefulness.