Roebuck Ponting must abondon diplomacy

[flanflinger]

Just Sounds like anotheer rumour from a bitter and twisted individual. First he "outs" Freddie as a thrower - (should be about time to resurect that slander Peter), now he claims we are ball-tampering.

On both counts these accussations are baseless.

Ten years ago when Waquar and Wasim did it there was an air of mystery that lead many to be suspicious. Now the science is understood there is less to worry about. However, the umpires check the ball at every session break, plus TV camera's pick up the slighest indiscretion. You have a match refree to impose any penalties. I really can't see this being a major problem.

Peter Roebuck is a sad biased man with a chip on his shoulder the size of Airs Rock... It is a pitty that he is given a platform to present his malicious views.

[Six & Out]

Once a weasel, always a weasel. This a man who plotted and conspired to throw out Viv Richards and Joel Garner from Somerset so he could control the captaincy without other dressing room personalities larger than his. He is a rat, a liar, an oddball and realising he had no friends he fled to Australia. I wouldn't spit on him if he was on fire.

There is no way England are doing anything untoward with the ball. As has been mentioned here there are cameras on every single angle in the ground and no way could a player get away with ball tampering. One of the keys with reverse swing is the pace you bowl at; something Australia don't have with the exception of Brett Lee.

I wish the so-called quality newspapers in this country wouldn't commission Roebuck. He writes poisonous tripe and feels the need to bolster his inadequate career and life by pointing the finger at the country he feels failed him. He should take a look in the mirror and ask himself why he is so despised by his peers.

[John]

Where does this leave Botham? Because last year he was still saying Waqar and Wasim bowling was not above board.
It was during a Tote sport match the were reffering to that series when Botham added about the reverse swing "pity they didn't do it legally"
Remember Wasim and Waqar bowled round the world it was only in that tour they were accused of ball tampering. As far as I know nowhere else were they accused of ball tampering.
Both Boycott and Pringle defended Waqar and Wasim.
So it would be interesting to know Botham's and Lamb's views has anyone seen anything?
Pherhaps Roebuck isn't the only one embittered?

[Six & Out]

If I recall correctly, Bothams stance was originally against Imran Khan who actually admitted ball tampering. It ended up in a court case, although that was about remarks towards Botham being a racist but stemmed from Botham slamming Khan for admitting "cheating". But that was in respect of lifting the seam.

However in his autobiography Botham states that he saw balls doing unplayable things when Wasim bowled; especially in regards to the 92 World Cup Final. I think it may well be bitterness from him. Michael Atherton has always maintained that Wasim and Waqar were the best bowlers he ever faced and he never stated that he thought the ball was being tampered with by either of them.

[John]

I can't remember Imran Khan ever admitting to cheating. You will have to fill me in on that one.
You see why I bring Botham up is that he and Lamb accused Wasim and Waqar of tampering. The argument goes we now know the mysteries of reverse swing so what Wasim and Waqar were doing shouldn't be met with by suspicion.
So Botham seemed to be maintaining the line a decade later. Even though his view wasn't accepted at the time by other English cricketers; both Boycott and Pringle appeared in the court case on Imran's side. The judge had to tell Boycott to shut up he was going into too much detail in explaining why this didn't amount to ball tampering.
So it would be interesting to hear what Botham and Lamb have to say about Roebuck's views seeing they have been chief proponents of this view. Because if it wasn't clear a decade ago (opinion was split) we can again expect split opinions.
How ironic we might have Botham and Roebuck in the same camp saying cricket balls shouldn't be doing what they did to Michael Clarke's off stump in the last Test.
In my limited opinion I think the bowlers are just bowling well. It wasn't clear in Botham's time nothing was proved.

[Six & Out]

Ivo Tennants authorised biography of Imran Khan states:

"I occasionally scratched the side of the ball and lifted the seam..... Only once did I use an object". The admission appeared in the Mail on Sunday, causing Khan to quit his position as Pakistans representative on the ICC. His position was that he didn't think ball tampering was cheating.

Then he made more statements after the uproar in the English media which led to a comment which Botham sued against as it could be implied he called Botham and Lamb racists.

He (Botham) never directly accused Wasim and Waqir of cheating as far as I know although he does imply it in his autobiography.

[John]

Botham lost the case of course.
Boycott and Pringle agreed with Imran that Wasim and Waqar weren't ball tampering. The point I am making is Botham and Lamb's claims were disputed even amongest English cricketers. Pringle outlined in the case the various things that had been done to the ball in county cricket and he said the two Pakistan bowlers weren't tampering. From what i can remember he said once they rubbed some Vaseline into the ball ( from memory). You see this is what Imran was saying all sort of things were being done to the ball by him Wasim and other bowlers but it did not amount to ball tampering. Imran said after the case there needs to be a proper debate about all this because there wasn't agreement.
This is what Imran did during the court case he got various cricketers to support his side. Botham etc. disagreed saying it amounted to ball tampering.
And if Roebuck eventually comes out clearly and says he thinks this was ball tampering we are back where we were when Iwas a fair bit younger with one side saying this amounts to ball tampering and the other saying no it doen't.
And people like me being non the wiser.

[acker]

And we know you sent Tony Grieg over here as the leader of a long term sleeper cell, of whom Peter Roebuck is probably a deep mole.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by John

Where does this leave Botham?

With every passing day, Botham gives more evidence of seeming to be one sick, twisted individual - take Roebuck and multiply it by 20, and you get some measure of Botham's insecurity, xenophobia and arrogance. The one man who, more than any other cricketer, personifies tabloid-Britain and everything that's wrong with the chav-class. Thankfully, the rest of the country is not like him

Originally Posted by John

You see why I bring Botham up is that he and Lamb accused Wasim and Waqar of tampering.

Not only was his view not accepted, but as you point out, Botham and Lamb were taken to the cleaners by Imran Khan in a libel suit when Imran called the pair of them "racist, uneducated and lacking in class". Not far off the mark, actually The likes of Boycott appeared as expert witnesses for Imran and helped quieten Botham for a bit, till Sky made their unfortunate decision to appoint him. This guy is as much a cricket commentator as Dermot Reeve, and at least Reeve was funny, not just bitter.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Maranello

This guy is as much a cricket commentator as Dermot Reeve, and at least Reeve was funny, not just bitter.

Reeve was smacked out of his brains!!

Botham is not a great commentator. My Understanding of that case was that Boycott actually helped neither side, and spent most of the time talking about himself - not a great suprise to many who know him.

Botham can be irriatating, but I don't seem him as twsited as Roebuck. He did once say that he would never send his mother-in-law to Pakistan, but after the last tour (as a commentator) he apologiosed and said actually he quite liked the place now...