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02-09-2005, 11:11 AM
in reply to cantplaycantalk's post starting "If you are just looking at stats, try..." | ||||
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http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/engla...yer/12457.html |
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Haddin is apparently "the new Gilly". This is the Gilly who averages 50+ in test cricket right? Not some other Gilly who does flower arranging of something? I had no idea Haddin averaged 37 in the first class game! The new Gilly? The new Chris Read more like! Thornley is 26 and has only made 20 FC appearances? Not so much of a young talent there then, more your emerging journeyman county pro. Lets be honest here, he's not exactly going to take the world by storm if he's struggling to hold down a place in domestic cricket, and his average of 50 probably merely reflects the small number of games he has played. 20 matches + 1 short spell of good form = massive average. Its pretty limp stuff. As for Dorey with his 6 matches at 27......... Or for that matter Johnson 6 matches. Hartly 6 matches. Geeves 7 matches. Cullen 10 matches. These guys are virtual unknowns. They MIGHT turn out to be test class. But then again, they MIGHT not. Sustained form it most certainly is not what they are giving me with those numbers though. Suggesting that they will will be world-beaters is an act of faith. And Cosgrove, with his 17 matches and average of 31, wouldn't even get a sniff at the ENG A-team were I selecting it. He must look really good to have people talking about him positively with that kind of return......
__________________ Still, a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest. Last edited by Richie Benauds Love Child : 05-09-2005 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Reduced quote - rblc |
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 ) here:-Haddin is not the new Gilly, given the facts presented above. He is likely to be an adequate test wicket keeper/batsman of the sort we are acustomed to seeing walk out in any decent test XI. Is anyone here seriously pretending that replacement of Gilchrist with this guy does anything but lose the AUS bow one of its most important strings? 'Cos if you are, I think you are living in cloudcuckooland.
__________________ Still, a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest. |
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| Who said that Haddin is the next Gilly? I sure didd'nt... Personaly I would prefer to see either Crosthewaite or Ronchi behind the stumps... Why is there such an obssession amoung the English about youth... A good batsmen is a good batsmen and 28 is hardly the end of somebody's career. People dont seem to realise yet that with the physical condition of Today's batsmen there is nothing preventing them from playing until they are 37, 38. Quote:
Thornly would have to be a bit more than a journey man to be playing Aus domestic cricket and averaging 50 (the same as Ricky Ponting and Damian Martyn). He made two double tons last year including 261*. http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/aust...ry/141343.html Let's also point out that getting into a state team is'nt as easy as walking into a county team. David Hussy had to move to Victoria after he could'nt get into the WA team even though he was averaging 700 runs a season. Mathew Inness could'nt get into the Victorian team last year despite taking two 7f's in District Cricket. Quote:
__________________ It's hard enough to remember my opinions, without remembering my reasons for them! Nietzsche |
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| Would'nt someone like Cameron White probably have more credentials to be called the next fast scoring big hitter to be incuded in the Australian team, hopefully the spin bowling improves to another level as well. |
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the fact is that with the volume of Test Cricket played it is no longer a game many players can carry on in until they are 40 anymore.. I have to say Goaty, you 100% right if these are the cream of the crop... then Australia really do have problems. Thornley played for Surrey this year - he looked OK, but I didn't thing he was that special... |
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 Thornley averages the same as Ponting and Martyn and could play until he's 50, but that doesn't answer either of my concerns about him. Why has he taken so long to get a regular place in the State side? The Waughs played in the same team as him, OK. And there are how many of them - 5 or 6? No there are two, leaving plenty of space for a player with the talent and the will to use it, as Katich clearly has. David Hussey is a fine example of what Thorneleys career would look like if he was the potential future super-star you are making him out to be. He had to leave his first state to get a game, and yet though Hussey is only one year older than Thornley he has played 52 matches! Thats nearly 3 times as many! After 20 matches an average of 50 is not convincing at all - just a few bad games and that will drop through the floor. Hussey has made a case - average 56 after 52 matches I'm guessing 80odd innings. Thats is sustainted form, which is precisely what none of those I note above have shown. Unfortunately for AUS, Katich has also made a strong case, and a fat lot of good it has done him so far this summer. If those lads with 6 matches apiece to thier names are the future of AUS, then the future of AUS is built on the hope of fair winds and good fortune.
__________________ Still, a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest. |
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The Australian system is very different from the English one (probably not news), but just the limited number of teams means that players really do have to be good to get in and hold down a spot. Twenty matches equates pretty much to two whole seasons. Trying to break into a batting lineup two years ago that contained two Waughs, Katich, Haddin, Bevan and Michael Clarke was a biggish askfor any young player, no matter how good. Rarely would an English county have this depth of batting riches. Again, because only one State is ever an option unless you change jobs, family changes jobs etc (commuting 500+km a day is a poor option), players in strong States are caught in an awkward spot. Which is why when they do break through, they often bloom quickly - years on the fringe can make a player very hungry. In England, a player is often geographically close enough to commute to a couple of counties, or move a short distance without having to give up the day job whilst trying to make the grade. A point I would make though is that numbers are only a part of the game. A look at the Enlgish career bowling averages would support this (32, 28, 28, 29 and 38 is hardly threatening). In a couple of players, identified by those that are good and great at picking out future stars (something I would not lay claim to), the hopes are high on technique and temperment as much ason numbers. Tait and Cullen are two such players. Michael Clark came into the test side because of his technique and temperment - he was averaging I think less than 40 in first class cricket after only 30-odd matches. In summary, the Oz batting cupboard is certainly healthy. The bowling cupboard is the one that the selectors might be a little more circumspect about. However, if we've got until after the next Ashes to find them, I'm not too fussed. One season is often enough to 'find' a bowler (recognising that years have gone into his development prior to that point), and Tait is a good example of this, whereas a batsman usually requires a few to show consistency. Interesting times... |
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__________________ It's hard enough to remember my opinions, without remembering my reasons for them! Nietzsche |
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02-09-2005, 11:10 PM
in reply to Leafy Seadragon's post starting "As are the hopes of most countries I..." | ||||
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This summer up to of late, I think it has been the Australian bowlers, that have deflated the whole team. Beny says about age not mattering about a batsman, and I agree, they can keep going a lot longer that bowlers, (Pace Bowlers), in fact I would have like to have seen Ramps in the England team against Australia, rather than Bell, he would not have dropped catches either. But Lee should have been a regular for Australia ages ago, he needed the confidence of the selectors. England to their creditkept faith with Flintoff, take his career stats, and cut them in two, what a difference, up with the best with bat and ball. Lee is doing this now, why was he not picked in front of Gilly I wonder, even McGrath as great as he has been, is 35 and prone to injury, so I think Tait has to be given a prolonged run. Just my opinion, but I think Australia have missed a two card trick, with the much improved Lee, and a raw but something about Tait, should have been in prior to this series.
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