Who's next

[Beny]

You 1st team minus Warne and McGrath just got pasted rond the park by two 20 year olds from Essex.


Ali Cook made a double century and Rav Bopara a century in a total of 502-4

Again I'll point out, take Flintoff and Harmison out of the England team and you'd probebly have a simmiler result.

Pakistan got trounced by a WA 2nd XI when they tourd last year...

BTW... Chris Rodgers hit 200 against Australia too.

Just a word about your county system. The reason Phil Jaques average was so high last year (before he started making runs in Aus), was that he would be average in Australia and then make double tons in England.

[cantplaycantalk]

Originally Posted by Beny

Again I'll point out, take Flintoff and Harmison out of the England team and you'd probebly have a simmiler result.

Pakistan got trounced by a WA 2nd XI when they tourd last year...

BTW... Chris Rodgers hit 200 against Australia too.

Just a word about your county system. The reason Phil Jaques average was so high last year (before he started making runs in Aus), was that he would be average in Australia and then make double tons in England.

1. These two kids were not batting against a county attack they were playing Australian test players.

2. Rogers played 4 county games and made a total of one 50 and no centuries this year.

3. So Jaques is more at home in English conditions, why not pick him for the tour ahead of some of the guys who can't handle them?

4. All 5 England bowlers have taken 10+ wickets, I would be more worried at the loss of Jones personnaly. We still have Gough, Caddick, Tremlett, Johnson, Kirtley, Sidebottom, Davies, Kirby, Anderson, Mahmood, Cork, Tudor. Not as good as the 1st choice but if they were they would be in the team.

5. Pakistan are a poor side. Essex are a second division side.

6. Cook and Bopara haven't been able to do this against 2nd division CC attacks, which you have pointed out are due to the English system not very strong, so how strong does that make the Australian test teams back up bowling?

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by cantplaycantalk

6. Cook and Bopara haven't been able to do this against 2nd division CC attacks,

Bopara has struggled but Cook has found life a lot easier

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/engla...yer/11728.html

It is all very well saying second div attacks - but unlike football or Rugby where the divisons reflect quality of players - cricket does not work like that

Just look at some of the bowlers in the secomd division http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/20...MOST_WKTS.html

Caddick, Anderson, Muralitharan, Gough, Hoggard, Langeveldt, Steyn!!

Anyway Australia forum - Beny I picked out Cook as one to watch.... a bit like in 1994 I was told that Ponting was one to watch (David Boon used to rave about him) and a few years back Clarke and Bell would be players to look out for.. When I heard these names they were 18-20 years old...

You have named some guys in their late twenties... but I don't hear of any "One-to-Watch" players in their very early twenties...

[The Phantom Ram]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

For the record, it was a four team series between AUS, ENG, ZIM and AUSA. And, the two Aussie teams made the final. Further to that, games against Aus A didn't hold ODI status.

I've read a fair bit about that series recently and it seems a bit of a farce. It attracted a lot of critisism at the time partly (and maybe mainly) because AUS and AUS A were able to swap players between their squad throughout the tournement. This came to a head in the 3 game final (it only went to 2) when Australia called up Australia A's best bowler and then never played him!

Also on that English tour that year there was a 50 over one day game that was played in quarters, i.e. Team A bats for 25 overs, Team B bats for 25 overs, Team A bats it's second 25 overs, Team B bats it's second 25 overs. Apparently that was critisised as well. At least the ACB or CA were trying to be innovative.

I agree with everything that our Australian chums say about the standard of domestic cricket being higher in Australia than England but the county championship is no where near as bad as it was. Hasn't England got a bigger population than Australia? If so you would imagine we could cope with a larger domestic structure (maybe not 18 teams compared to 6). But maybe in a few years time, if English cricket is marketed, managed and coached correctly we may have enough young players playing the game to support 18 counties to the quality of the 6 in Australia? It would be a long way off but if cricket keeps gaining popularity in this country the sky could be the limit.

ps Can I just ask what the rule is in the Pura Cup (your domestic first class tournement?) regards foreign players? I know sometimes you have them but very rarely?

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

Whilst the selectors may have got it right in he long run, in about 1998, I don't think they would've been too pleased. Only Ponting was a regular fixture. Post Ashes 2001 was when it came to fruition with the side consisting of Hayden, Langer, Martyn and Ponting all in form.

My point is that all these guys were identified young, the raw talent was there, Yes some of them took their time, but the talent was clearlt there...When they did get into the team they were 27-28 and now the same problem is happening, but even worse the Hussies, Hodge and Maher won't get into the team until they are well into their thirties..

I have even heard Brad Williams described as one of your "young" bowling talent - he was 30!!

All I am saying is.. it is all very well having these pools of talent (although I am still convinced that you have anyone under 25 - other than Clarke and Tait) but if they don't get into the side by the age of 26 you will not maximise that talent.

With International Cricket getting clogged with fixtures - guys in their mid-thirties will not be able to cut it (unless your name is Alec Stewart) you need to get the yong guys in their early and that means sub 25...

[Paoli]

I get what you are trying to say flanflinger, but my point is that the blokes in that team took a long time to aclimatise, whereas the current crop wouldn't take long at all. Hayden was 30 before he had that series in India; Martyn was 29 at the time of his first test century, Lehmann was 33 at the time of his first test century and Langer was dropped at thirty only to come back.

What I'm saying is...these blokes took a long while to get used to international cricket. I think that M.Hussey, Chris Rogers, Brad Hodge and now Marty Love could be picked for Australia and not face the problems that these guys did.

[Beny]

FF, Neither Hayden, Martyn, Langer or Gillchrist cememnted their places in the Aussie side until well into their late twenties... Fact is that Australia has vast pools of talent waiting in the wings and it doesnt really matter if they are 20 or 28, so long as they score runs and take wickets, especialy if you have so many of these guys that you can keep changing them around every 5 years or so, filling them in with the younger guns when the chance comes along. 'the talent is clearly there'.
Here is the other fact, Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne are fitter than anybody in the English side, no matter how old they are. Brett Lee (29), is probebly the fittest cricketer in the world and Mathew Hayden (34) is eaisily the strongest in the world, also right up there in terms of stamina. Damian Martyn, Ricky Ponting, Justin Langer... these guys are all very fit and you will find that age is not what it was 10 years ago. These guys have physical trainers and medico's all around them. Brad Hogg (34) recently ran the beep test better than most Australian footballers. Simon Jones got injured, does that mean he's too old to hack it?

ps Can I just ask what the rule is in the Pura Cup (your domestic first class tournement?) regards foreign players? I know sometimes you have them but very rarely?

There is'nt one so far as I know... However it's very hard to get accepted as a forgin player in Aus. Even if you are out-proforming an Aussie player it still doesent garentuee you selection.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Beny

'the talent is clearly there'.

Ok, but I remain unconvinced that you have the same level

Originally Posted by Beny

Here is the other fact, Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne are fitter than anybody in the English side, no matter how old they are. .

Really - is that why Warne has had to take a week off becuase he was knackered. McGrath is so fit he couldn't play in the Old Trafford Test.

If Jones does make it, then we will have not changed out XI for the entire series whereas you have had to make several - due to ageing players

[Beny]

Really - is that why Warne has had to take a week off becuase he was knackered. McGrath is so fit he couldn't play in the Old Trafford Test.

Warne took a week off because there was no need for him to play whilst his bowling avearge for this tour is under 20... He's no more tired than any of the other Aussie bowlers, although I'm the first to admit that he is a risk of injury because of wear and tear on his shoulder, however he has'nt been injured since his return from surjury.

McGrath had a sore elbow! It's the first injury he's had in ages and for the record he is the only player who has been forced to withdraw due to injury on this tour. He could be back for this test.

[flanflinger]

http://www.world-a-team.com/showpost...8&postcount=57

I will let Shane Warne speak for himself

Originally Posted by Shane Warne

Personally, I must admit my body feels pretty sore, but with ten days between games, I will be ready. I am getting on for 36 and I’ve bowled more overs than anybody in the series. In the past three Tests I’ve had to bowl a lot more than usual in the first innings when there is nothing in the pitch for spinners.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...757756,00.html

Is 2003-04 recent - beacuse that's when McGrath was injured for the India Home Series...

To the best of my knowledge he didn't play a game due to injury

http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/20..._TEST_AVS.html