Who's next

[Mike]

Test squad for Super Series

Batting:
*Ricky Ponting, 62.53
*Adam Gilchrist, 53.57
*Damien Martyn, 51.67
Michael Clarke, 40.79
Brad Haddin, 57.25
*Matthew Hayden, 30.07
*Brad Hodge, 63.64
*Michael Hussey, 60.78
Phil Jaques, 66.78
*Simon Katich, 39.50
*Justin Langer, 50.29
*Andrew Symonds, 39.69
Shane Watson. 41.26

Bowling:
Brett Lee, 19@33.68
*Michael Lewis, 38@22.08
*Stuart MacGill, 70@23.01
*Glenn McGrath, 73@18.71
*Matthew Nicholson, 47@20.06
Shaun Tait, 65@20.16
*Shane Warne, 84@23.87
*Jason Gillespie, 45@30.82
Nathan Bracken, 43@18.79
*Michael Kasprowicz, 39@30.31
Daniel Cullen, 43@30.37
*Stuart Clark, 40@25.97

Twenty-five players have been selected in the provisional squad. About two-thirds of the squad are 30+ (names with an asterisk). The batting and bowling averages are either Test averages from past 12 months or First Class averages in 2004-05 domestic season. Lots of good figures there so there is a bit of depth in the batting and bowling but, apart from Shaun Tait and Phil Jaques, the next generation of Test players is very unclear.

[Beny]

Is 2003-04 recent - beacuse that's when McGrath was injured for the India Home Series...

To the best of my knowledge he didn't play a game due to injury

He had an ankle opperation... the same one that Brett Lee (27 at the time) had on the return leg.

I will let Shane Warne speak for himself

There is nothing wrong with him being sore, so long as he can still play, which he can.

[Leafy Seadragon]

Originally Posted by Beny

Here is the other fact, Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne are fitter than anybody in the English side, no matter how old they are

Fitness is quite a different thing from age. Numerous people can stay fit well into their forties and even fifties. You just have to go to Masters games to see how fit many older people remain (I doubt that Warney or McGrath would contemplate a marathon, yet numerous older people manage several a year). However, these same older people are far more susceptible to wear and tear strains. Additionally, the twitch muscle response and trained responses (automated physical activities) slow down dramatically in the thirties. Hand-eye coordination goes along with it, and as the bodies systems start to break down (balance can go to a degree), sportspeople become more and more dependent upon the mental part of their game. Increasing healing times for injuries and even tiredness and age also becomes a huge factor. Warne and McGrath aren't the first fit bowlers to play the game, in Warne's case I'm sure there have been many fitter. Yet I'm not aware of too many test bowlers in their fifties. Age is huge factor, that even superhuman fitness won't overcome. I suspect that fitness also has only a limited influence on the hand-eye reactions of batsmen. What is more of an issue is just when each individual's decline really happens. History suggests that 33-35 is generally it for most batsmen and 38 for all except the most exceptional

As for the Australian talent, the late introduction of players isn't an issue if it is managed well. Gilchrist for example made his test debut just shy of his 28th birthday, despite cries at the time that he would never be good enough to replace Healey. Points have been made about several other batsmen really only getting going later in their career. The challenge is bringing the next generation through at the right time. If the system prepares them to step straight into the breach at 29, then so be it. You'll get 3-4 years out of them before they move on. That's an Ashes cycle. Some exceptional players (we think Clarke and Tait may be two such players), you will get a decade out of. The current test team has a 24 y.o. player (Clarke) and a 22 y.o. player (Tait). Both are younger than anybody in the English team. Other 'young' Cricket Australia contracted players include Shane Watson (24 - not the finished article, but a 1st class batting ave of 50+ and bowling of 30) and Dan Cullen (21 - not finished, but even Warney didn't debut in test cricket until 22). There's three players with the potential of a decade of test cricket and another with a potential good 7 years. This is probably more than any of the current English team have ahead of them. So, on this basis, one might ask, where is England's next generation coming from?

[Goatman]

I am being mis-represented here. Which is annoying as I said this in my first post:-

"I am not one who expects to see AUS propping up the ICC tables in 12 months time and there are some decent players in that list"

And that I single out at least one of the Husseys as an example of a player who HAS made a case for being someone to watch. Hardly saying the cupboard is bare am I?

Frankly, I don't give a flying **** if certain individuals happened to be born in a state with a strong team as that is close to irrelevent - no, actually it is irrelevent. All the names on your list are highly able cricketers. That is how they got there. To get close to being professional in the first place Thornley must have displayed a very high level of ability. The difference between those who make it all at the way and those that do not is almost invariably mental. His decision to sit on his **** and pick his nose rather that upping sticks and getting himself off to play for another state hardly indicates the kind of hunger for success that is the hall mark of every great sportsman. You are talking someone who left his home country and went to one with a different currency, a different culture and a different language and took his then-pregnant wife with him in order to take the opportunities life was offering with both hands, which (for the record) was when I was 24 - younger than the remarkably indolent Thorneley. If you expect me to have sympathy with some poor little Lord Fauntleroy who is too scared to leave Mummy and move to a different part of the same country you are living in false hope.

I am not suggesting that the AUS cupboard is bear. What I am doing is what I will always do when someone tells me that some lad who has played 6 first class games will be the next big thing, where ever they come from and whenever I am being told. I am curling my lip and pointing out that one swallow does not make summer. I am an instictive sceptic, particulalrly with reference to young cricketers who so often are talked up. When I read the above about Cook I thought "We'll see....". Now, after his 200, my opinion of him has not shifted 1mm. We still shall have to see.

As for whether either nation has good or poor resources for the future, as Beny points out himself, there is only one answer possible - "we'll have to wait and see". This is a bit of an exercise in baseless, daft arm-waving to be perfectly honest....

[Beny]

I dont belive that I've even replied directly to any of your posts Goaty... However, whoever said that a player is not a bright prospect simply because he has'nt played at Aus state level until he reaches 26 years of age, is wrong. If your suggesting that I belive that a batting average of 50 in Pura Cup cricket makes a player a star then you hav'nt been reading my posts properly... I'm trying to dispel a belief that Australa are going to suffer a horrible decline because we have nobody to back up our current squad. I'm not blowing this guys trumpet as the next Don Bradmen.

His decision to sit on his **** and pick his nose rather that upping sticks and getting himself off to play for another state

He was rookie contracted by NSW. He knew a chance was coming and he decided he wanted to be in NSW when it came.

If you expect me to have sympathy with some poor little Lord Fauntleroy who is too scared to leave Mummy and move to a different part of the same country you are living in false hope.

Good on you Goaty, you sound like my dad though... Some people have different values and dont like the idea of uprooting their families to go chasing a career which may or may not eventuate. But now here he is... struting his stuff for the world to see and he's doing a damed good job of it.

What I am doing is what I will always do when someone tells me that some lad who has played 6 first class games will be the next big thing, where ever they come from and whenever I am being told.

I dont belive that anybody has said that... But it's fair to say that this person has shown promise.

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by Beny

Good on you Goaty, you sound like my dad though... Some people have different values and dont like the idea of uprooting their families to go chasing a career which may or may not eventuate. But now here he is... struting his stuff for the world to see and he's doing a damed good job of it.

If I can be allowed to blow my own trumpet for a second longer (and theres a talent to be proud of...), three years of slog later, I have made it. In fact, I have made it to the extent that I am returning to a very good job in my native Yorkshire this very month. The reason why I have made it - and the reason I believe Thornley will not make it - is because I have shown the hunger to do so, and he has not. Success in any field requires more motivation than it does talent. I am living proof of that!

[Beny]

And when/If Thornly gets a baggygreen I'm sure he will be just as pleased with himself.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Leafy Seadragon

The current test team has a 24 y.o. player (Clarke) and a 22 y.o. player (Tait). Both are younger than anybody in the English team.

So the 24 year old would be younger than the 23 year old Ian Bell? AT 25 KP would hardly be classed as ancient either unlike the majority of your team.

[Beny]

Just a reminder to everybody that this is the Australia fourm and thus is subject to the sanctuary rule... I'm not sure weather or not anybody has stepped over the line yet but we seem to be edging ever closer to it. Additional to that, please keep the disscusion friendly. Oppinions are free to be expressed but it is not the end of the world if people do not agree. Make your argument, fight like hell, just respect the person you are posting to.

[The Phantom Ram]

Originally Posted by Goatman

If I can be allowed to blow my own trumpet for a second longer (and theres a talent to be proud of...)

Have you had a rib removed?