Hayden overated?

[Beny]

Brain Lara, Tendualker, Ponting, Dravid, Inzaman... they all played in the same era.

[The Phantom Ram]

Originally Posted by Beny

Brain Lara, Tendualker, Ponting, Dravid, Inzaman... they all played in the same era.

Fair point.

[Paoli]

We all have theories as to why Hayden is going through a form slump, but we all agree that this one tops the list. Rodney Hogg, a true student of the game (Just ask Beny for verification), has this theory that he presented on Melbourne Radio last week:

"I reckon the reason is because he's been liftin' too many weights...Have you seen the size of 'im?"

Brilliant Response, Mr Hogg.

Hayden is overrated; I don't think so. What is good, as many have said, is that he made the most of his top form. Hayden remains a favourite player of mine, despite the fact that I'd love to see Brad Hodge get a run. At his best Hayden pulvarises attacks to all parts of the ground; and unfortunately he hasn't been able to do that. He shouldn't change his game; but hopefully, a timely hundred is going to be delivered at The Oval. He's been playing good enough shots, just the bowling outsmarts him at times.

Hayden had a brilliant run against SA both here and over there. Then against England he had a brilliant first test, smashing 197 then 103 in the same match. The India series was unforgettable, he did well in Sharjah vs. Pakistan, taught a lesson to Zimbabwe, likewise to Sri Lanka over there and in the Top End tests, scored runs against NZ in 2001 in Australia, and had a pretty good series against the Windies in the Caribbean. Hayden has conquered every mountain in test cricket. Lets just hope that he repeats those fetes.

[Seamer]

Steve Waugh was one of Haydens strongest backers - when he came back into the side in 2000 with a test average of 25, Waugh confidently predicted he would double that average. Hayden did not disappoint.
Hayden's batting went downhill when Steve Waugh retired and i have looked up the stats of Hayden under Ponting and Waugh
Under Waugh
42 tests, 4188 runs, Ave 66.47
Under Ponting
21 tests, 1413 runs, Ave 37.18
If you look at his record since Waugh retired, it is uncanny to see an almost instant decline. Maybe Ponting does not give Hayden the support he craves?
Waugh called Hayden just prior to the Essex match and had a long talk with him. Hayden then went out and smacked 150 off 118 deliveries. Maybe that pep talk from Waugh was the tonic Hayden needed. Hayden may well walk out to bat at the Oval with Waughs words ringing in his ears and don't be surprised if he pulls off a career saving innings

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Seamer

Waugh called Hayden just prior to the Essex match and had a long talk with him. Hayden then went out and smacked 150 off 118 deliveries. Maybe that pep talk from Waugh was the tonic Hayden needed. Hayden may well walk out to bat at the Oval with Waughs words ringing in his ears and don't be surprised if he pulls off a career saving innings

As much as I agree he is due that innings, Seamer, we all know that playing against Essex with Palladino, Napier, Middlebrook and two "unknowns" is different to facing up to England's current attack at the Oval withe the Test match pressure on. Didn't Hayden get a big score against Northants prior to the third Test too?

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Maranello

Ninjaman, I think the doubts arise when people appraise him based on his average; his high average flatters him, and overstates his status amongst opening batsmen in an historical context.

The fact that he once hit 935 on the ratings list... placing him in amongst (indeed near the top of) the greatest ever... and has often been hailed alongside Ponting and Gilchrist as one of the giants of the recent Aussie side... and was (until recently) almost completely eclipsing Langer in all talk of "the best of our era" all rather grates.

Nice to hear that if he does lose his place it's likely to be to Katich... who's compeltely the reverse: the subject of snide remarks and sniping no matter how heroically he battles to save his team!

[Colourful Chaddi]

I don't beilve hayden is over-rated, the praise he gets from the media and players he deserves. His record has been incredicle and has made a great comnbonation with fellow opener Justin Langer, but at the moemnt he is on a lean trot like ganguly is. But Hayden looks like he will 'be among runs soon' compared to ganguly.

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

As much as I agree he is due that innings, Seamer, we all know that playing against Essex with Palladino, Napier, Middlebrook and two "unknowns" is different to facing up to England's current attack at the Oval withe the Test match pressure on. ?

The post was to show the influence Steve Waugh has had on Hayden. While the English bowlers have bowled well to him, a lot of his problems have been mental. Sometimes when going through difficult periods in life, the right words from the right person at the right time can make all the difference. If he does turn it around at the Oval, i think this timely discussion form Steve Waugh will have been a major reason for it.

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Nice to hear that if he does lose his place it's likely to be to Katich... who's compeltely the reverse: the subject of snide remarks and sniping no matter how heroically he battles to save his team!

Cricket is all about momentum. Playing submissive innings and allowing the bowlers to get into a rythym and get on top is not the way to win test matches. He cannot score big centuries because he is either unwilling or unable to play shots. He may be able to help draw a game, but he certainly is not the man to win a game.
At the end of the day, cricket is about entertainment and results and no-one will be willing to waste good money and a whole day watching someone like Kattitch play. I personally find watching him bat painful and beyond boring. His Boycott style takes me back to the days when barely 1000 people would turn up to watch a test and when the game was slowly dying.
Notice how attacking cricket has brought the game alive in England again?

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Seamer

The post was to show the influence Steve Waugh has had on Hayden. While the English bowlers have bowled well to him, a lot of his problems have been mental. Sometimes when going through difficult periods in life, the right words from the right person at the right time can make all the difference. If he does turn it around at the Oval, i think this timely discussion form Steve Waugh will have been a major reason for it.

That's a fair point Seamer. I was trying to suggest that having scored a few against Northants some people may have thought the problems were over too. Thursday cannot come quickly enough for many of us, then we can stop talkiong and listen/watch!