The Mighty Victorian Bushrangers

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Beny

Rach [..] What you say is assuming that a batsmen is only good if they can play well on an English green top, which is akin to saying that a batsmen is only quality if they can play well in the Sub-continent.

Not quite.. but those are surely the two true Tests of a batsman: seamers moving the ball in the air and off the seam on an uneven greentop... and spinners bowling to attacking fields on pitches that encourage them to give the ball some air and experiment with variation.

Originally Posted by Beny

Aussie pitches do tend to suit the batsmen more than the bowler but that does'nt mean they are concreate roadways. If a bowler is good enough then there is plenty to work with on an Aussie pitch as was shown by the batting collapes in the Super test.

One ground suits two great wrist spinners... great! The record of most finger spinners in Australia is pretty atrocious.. and stacks of perfectly good seamers have just toiled in vain. I'd have Alec Bedser in an all time World XI for any decent pitch.. but would you want him in Aus?

[Beny]

Thing is Rach, your idea of a 'decent pitch' only exsits in England.

What about Perth, the ball might not seam or swing much there but there is plenty of bounce of a length. Brisbane is a bouncy, fast seamers pitch and Melbourne has plenty there for a bowler. Only Adalaide, which is good for reverse swing, really could be accused of lacking anything for the bowlers and even then the two most promising bowlers in the country (Tait and Cullen) play there.

By your reasoning we could argue that English bowlers are overated because they get too much assistance from the pitch...

I'll be interested to see how Nathan Braken, who's done very well in Aus, goes in England at the end of the season.

[Rachael]

Ability to exploit conditions is surely what bowling is all about: McGrath was exemplary in working with one spot on the slope at Lords this year (finding a point from which the ball might nip in off the seam or go pretty much straight)... and the next best bowling spell after that was Hoggard working with overcast conditions at Old Trafford. We saw what happens when such assistance is NOT available at Edgbaston: pitching the ball up haemoraged runs... as did anything short.. and aside from those periods when the ball reversed, stolid ODI bowling tactics became the order of the day - as embodied by Flintoff's monotonous, back of a length deliveries intended to contain scoring rather than to take wickets.

England's got more than it's fair share of pitches that offer too little to the bowler. Kent and Middlesex, in particular, have pitches so true that no batsman need EVER fear opening the face or swinging with a horizontal bat. Surrey's home ground is just as bad. Sadly, though, the Surrey Loam that binds that pitch together has been exported to many northern pitches... with terrible results: pitches with this in just don't degrade properly... and you could play a 10 day Test on some of them without having anything appreciable to work with outside fo the bowlers follow-through!

Northants produce some good wickets for finger spinners.. and the Rose Bowl hasa glorious track... and both Notts and Headingly are generally good in the early part of the season and stack the odds in favour of conventional swing.... so don't think this country (post covering of the wickets) is a bowler's paradise!

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Rachael

.. and the Rose Bowl has a glorious track...

I've heard it called a lot of things, but never that!!! It's generally accepted that the Rose Bowl is a Test ground in the waiting. Waiting for it's pitch to behave well on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by Rachael

and both Notts and Headingly are generally good in the early part of the season and stack the odds in favour of conventional swing....

Trent Bridge is now a fairly decent batting pitch, like it was in the fifties and sixties. Green tops were prepared to assist Sir RJ Hadlee, in the main. Overhead conditions are more due to the location of the ground i.e. north of Watford Gap and on the banks of the Trent. You only have to look at the scores in Notts matches over the last few years to see how it's become a good batting surface, bowlers can get something out of it but they do have to be good.

[Kopite]

Go Vics!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Quagmire]

the english think that county cricket is good, its not. they compair county cricket to australian state cricket, its not the same. county cricket is a cross between state cricket and district 1st cricket. we even have county players playing in my local comp and there not even the best players in the league.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

I'm not sure where you have read where ANY England supporter says that our county game is anywhere near the Aussie state cricket, although I'd love you to show me. I think Rach at al where saying some of the PITCHES were good rather than the succession of county trundlers, kolpackers and formertest stars the ply their trade.

[Quagmire]

england is a seam bowlers paradise compared to alot of other countries around the world, which if your a lover of batting and big scores england isnt the ideal place to watch cricket, but if you love seam bowlers taking lots of wickets and not many runs, England is a great place to watch cricket.