Mitchell Johnson (Under Wraps)

[Mr Hutt]

if he can bowl around 85 - 86 miles an hr and swing it... thats what waseem akram did.... and we all know how dangerous he was. This ashes is gonna be something i tell ya

[acker]

Channell nine clocks them ?

[flanflinger]

Typical of Australian selection policy though. Genuine prospect, clearly defined talent.

So is he playing regularly? No! Destroys India, then gets sent straight home due to the selection policy set out before the tournament, madness.

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/austr...ry/259783.html

The guys 24, and has not played a single Test and has not had a decent run in the ODI's. He will probably lose out to Stuart Clark (31), Bracken (29), Kasprowicz (34) and Gillespie (31). This guy will probably not get a decent run in the side until his is his late twenties, early 30's. Which is just too late.

When you think that England, India and Pakistan are playing fast-bowlers in their early twenties (Asif, Gul, Broad, Plunkett, Pathan and Patel - all younger than Johnson) you can see why I feel Australia will not be number one for too much longer!! They need to start picking some guys on potential alone, otherwise they will face the same problem that the West Indies faced when Ambrose and Walsh retired.

Warne, McGrath and even Lee cannot go on forever, so the short term policy of selecting guys in their late twenties, early thirties will not help the side in 5 years.

Guys like Johnson and Tait should be being blooded to step up, at this rate though they will still be inexperienced and wet behind the ears. While their English, Indian and Pakistani counter parts will have 20-30 Test behind them.

[Beny]

Guys like Johnson and Tait should be being blooded to step up,

They are being FF...

Clarke and Watson both fit this mould and I would'nt be surprised if both get a run in the Ashes.

Johnson has played a number of ODI's and has come out and praised just being around the guys, as the main reason he's becoming better.

The ammount of flak the selectors copped when they picked him for NZ was huge... Yet they still went ahead and gave him a shot.

Lets also not forget that Aus Domestic cricket is already of a high standard, and there have been plenty of players who have walked into tests with only Pura Cup behind them.

[Quagmire]

Beny you said what i was going to say, people don't realise the standard of Pura cup cricket. Thats the reason why players like Hussey, Hodge, Lehmann, Kasprowicz and Clark do so well when they come into the Australian side when they are older.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

do so well when they come into the Australian side when they are older.

Well that's great, but some of the guys I mentioned could be (and are) fixtures in their teams (India, Pakistan etc) at 23-24 meaning they have ten years of Test cricket. Clark has what 5 years at the most?

This is the problem, by the time Johnson gets a decent shot he could be 28-29? So you get a short-lived Test Career.

England look likely to give Broad a Test place next year, and I would expect like other youngsters (Panesar, Cook, Bell, Anderson* and Plunkett) he will get a decent run. If he plays as long as Glenn McGrath he could have 15 years at the top level.

Pura Cup may be strong, but it's not Test Cricket, it doesn't have the same mental pressure. As it is many of the Ausralian players spend their winters in England, and I am certain a year or two there also helps them. (as County Cricket has become a very strong competition is recent years)

For me blooding a player means getting him in the team while the experienced players are there. Hoggard for example was put into the Test team as a back up to Gough and Caddick, he didn't get the new ball at first, but now is a fixture (and looks likely to take more wickets than Gough and Caddick). That was blooding a player, not sending him home after a good performances because a pre-planned selection policy.

I just find it fascinating that Australia seem to pick guys in their late twenties and early thirties, meanwhile all the other Test nations are looking at early to mid twenties. It is my belief that if you are good enough you are old enough, and I actually feel for guys like Lehmann, who finally got his chance and before he had settled in to Test cricket, his career was over.


*James Anderson is one year younger than Johnson has 13 Test Caps and played 50 ODI's, as becoming a key player for England

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/engla...ayer/8608.html

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

I just find it fascinating that Australia seem to pick guys in their late twenties and early thirties, meanwhile all the other Test nations are looking at early to mid twenties.

I don't find it fascinating - i find it annoying. But when the Aussie selection room is/was filled with guys like Boon, Border and Hohns - they played up to late 30's early 40's - you can understand why age was never considered a factor by them. I think youth is the way to go and have done so for some time but i have constantly been forced to eat my words. Despite the Aus selectors policy, Australia is still way on top and do not look like dropping from that position the near future.

Originally Posted by flanflinger

It is my belief that if you are good enough you are old enough, and I actually feel for guys like Lehmann, who finally got his chance and before he had settled in to Test cricket, his career was over.

I agree but it is possible to blood players too early though. Micheal Clarke comes to mind. If you bring them in too early and they fail badly, it can prematurely destroy their career. It is all well and fine youngsters to gain experience but not if it is a bad experience.

[Quagmire]

Why have Australia been number 1 for so many years, the reason is because they rotate men not boys, Australia put in the current best players in the country. Only the really special cricketers like Ponting & Clarke who have shown great talent when they were young get a spot early. Cosgrove will be the same. The myth of breed players is really silly, im sure it has to be done with other countries that have much, much weaker domestic levels.

Here for example of some of the NSW players

Jaques
Katich
Clarke
Thornely
Phelps
Haddin
Lee
Bracken
S. Clark
McGrath
MacGill

Or how about Queensland

Hayden
Watson
Symonds
Maher
Love
Hauritz
Kasprowicz
Bichel
Hopes
Noffke
M. Johnson

Or WA

Hussey
North
Gilchrist
Langer
Voges
Martyn
Williams
Goodwin
Inness
Dorey
Rogers

Young guys learn from more experienced players in Domestic cricket.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

im sure it has to be done with other countries that have much, much weaker domestic levels.

Young guys learn from more experienced players in Domestic cricket.

I am sorry mate but no matter how good domestic cricket is, it will not replicate Test cricket. As it is over the last few years it has been generally stated that County Cricket in England is getting close to the standard of Pura Cup games, in terms of competition.

The interesting thing is that we are getting players coming through like Cook and Panesar, who have have stepped up to Test cricket very quickly indeed. I have no doubt that this is because the standard has improved, however, we are getting these guys into the team 5-6 years earlier than Australia, what does that say about the development system in Australia?

[Quagmire]

Yeah but Australia are still first in both forms of the game, what does that say about Australian Cricket? I also wouldnt say that is just because Warne because he doesnt play ODI's & McGrath has been out for a year and doesnt play the biggest role in ODI's. Also county cricket is only becoming a good standard because imported players. Australia really don't import players anywhere near the same level as what County cricket does. Also how long have Australia played older experienced players and rotated them?

Players like two victorians in David Hussey & Brad Hodge would walk into any side around the world, David Hussey might not have been able to walk into India but Brad Hodge would have. The same is with MacGill.

No matter how much people are wishing Australian cricket is dying, one series lose 2-1 where one test was decided by a few runs and every one says that they are finished. A full strenght Australian side is still the best side in the world, just have a look at the ICC Team & Player rankings