Fallacies regarding Read/Jones

[Mark Kidger]

Originally Posted by Oliver

On the other hand Read's career started comparably five years before Jack Russell's.
That's a side issue I know however, as they are now the same age...eerrr...comparably.
Um if you see what I mean. Russell was 25 when he began, and Read is 25 now.

True, but he's still had a chance to get his runs and he has been in a team that has been doing far better than England were when Russell started to play.

[Rich Greenfield]

England have so many promasing young keepers: Jones, Wallace, Foster, Prior, Read. I reckon they will all get a chance in the next 2/3 years and then the selectors will pick the one who has shown the best.

[cantplaycantalk]

England will go for the first keeper who performs at Testr level.

If Jones can average 30+ with the bat and keep tidily then it will take a pieterson like season from one of the others with the bat to shift him (baring injuries)

[sostenurter]

Originally Posted by Mark Kidger

True, but he's still had a chance to get his runs and he has been in a team that has been doing far better than England were when Russell started to play.

Hi Mark, nice to see you here!

I think that having two keepers will drive standards up - Jones knows he can't afford to let his current excellent keeping standards drop, and maybe dropping Read will give him the spur needed to improve his batting and prove the selectors wrong. And as the last ODI game proved, I think he will remain our 1st choice ODI keeper, and will be a very handy batsman coming in lower down the order.

Further to the starting post I made, I would like to point out that George Duckworth, possibly the greatest keeper ever, played only 24 Tests, most against the weaker nations! This was because he averaged only 15 with the bat, the same as Read. So maybe things haven't changed so much

[Mark Kidger]

Originally Posted by sostenurter

Hi Mark, nice to see you here!

I think that having two keepers will drive standards up - Jones knows he can't afford to let his current excellent keeping standards drop, and maybe dropping Read will give him the spur needed to improve his batting and prove the selectors wrong. And as the last ODI game proved, I think he will remain our 1st choice ODI keeper, and will be a very handy batsman coming in lower down the order.

Further to the starting post I made, I would like to point out that George Duckworth, possibly the greatest keeper ever, played only 24 Tests, most against the weaker nations! This was because he averaged only 15 with the bat, the same as Read. So maybe things haven't changed so much

Absolutely right and Read has reacted well saying that he wants to get some runs and get his place back. And Foster has started the season with a century. It's a wonderful situation. Whoever gets the job has to be top-notch and keep it up.

[Tom Partis]

it's fair to say that our wicket keeping dilemma is a problem, but it must be one of the nicest problems to have. i agree that if jones manages to average 30+ against NZ and maintain a decent standard with the gloves, he will be very difficult to dislodge from the side. i also like the idea that read will play in the ODI team as he can throw the bat, and good keeping is very important in a format of the game where keeping runs down is obviously of the essence. it would be good to see a keeper stand up to the likes of anderson and hoggard and certainly the likes of collingwood, if he is allowed to bowl again after sundays debacle. the other bonus (from a kent supporters point of view) is that if read is in the team for the ODI's, jones will not be on international duty for the entirety of the summer, and i think we're going to miss him quite a lot this season. still, we have him back for tomorrow's game vs worcestershire, which is good enough for now.

[Mark Kidger]

Originally Posted by Tom Partis

it's fair to say that our wicket keeping dilemma is a problem, but it must be one of the nicest problems to have. i agree that if jones manages to average 30+ against NZ and maintain a decent standard with the gloves, he will be very difficult to dislodge from the side. i also like the idea that read will play in the ODI team as he can throw the bat, and good keeping is very important in a format of the game where keeping runs down is obviously of the essence. it would be good to see a keeper stand up to the likes of anderson and hoggard and certainly the likes of collingwood, if he is allowed to bowl again after sundays debacle. the other bonus (from a kent supporters point of view) is that if read is in the team for the ODI's, jones will not be on international duty for the entirety of the summer, and i think we're going to miss him quite a lot this season. still, we have him back for tomorrow's game vs worcestershire, which is good enough for now.

Welcome to the Board Tom. Yet another exile?

You are quite right there. However, I'd add a proviso - he needs to get at least one fifty in the series because, after all, that was what Read couldn't do in the end.

Your point on having the two 'keepers is well taken, if only because of the nature of this year's international programme - it is far too intense for any member of the side to play all the international matches and that includes Vaughan himself.

Read has not failed on the ODI team, although I am slightly surprised that the selectors threw Jones straight in. I had rather expected Jones to get a try-out in ODIs, with Read retaining the gloves in the Tests, and to have a shoot-out for the right to be 'keeper this summer. Anyway, splitting the 'keeping is definitely the right decision. Now though there is a need to identify a third 'keeper who will be emergency cover should either suffer an injury - either could take over from the other on a limited basis, but if Read were to break a finger just before the triangular series it would be asking a lot of Jones to 'keep in so many Tests and the ODIs. Same thing in reverse were Jones to get injured (and remember that this scenario happened just a couple of years ago when the 'keeper in possesion, Foster, broke an arm right at the start of the season). With at least 90 days of international cricket this year a third 'keeper as cover is a must. Any thoughts who it should be? One guesses that it would be Foster...

[Tom Partis]

yeah, joining the mass exodus. i could hack the bad moderation while there were still decent posters, but i didn't think i could handle it if everyone left, and so i didn't stick around to find out

i think the third keeper probably would be foster, but i'd rather see prior in there myself. he had a very decent A tour when the chips were down, and he and pieterson were head and shoulders above the other batsmen, which contained several other future england hopefuls such as smith and shafayat.

i was also initially surprised that jones wasn't put in the ODI's instead of the tests, but then i looked at their respective averages and realised read was far better in one dayers whereas jones excels in the longer form of the game. i think they could form a pretty effective combination over time, but they need to be given time to settle into their respective roles.

[Mark Kidger]

Originally Posted by Tom Partis

yeah, joining the mass exodus. i could hack the bad moderation while there were still decent posters, but i didn't think i could handle it if everyone left, and so i didn't stick around to find out

i think the third keeper probably would be foster, but i'd rather see prior in there myself. he had a very decent A tour when the chips were down, and he and pieterson were head and shoulders above the other batsmen, which contained several other future england hopefuls such as smith and shafayat.

i was also initially surprised that jones wasn't put in the ODI's instead of the tests, but then i looked at their respective averages and realised read was far better in one dayers whereas jones excels in the longer form of the game. i think they could form a pretty effective combination over time, but they need to be given time to settle into their respective roles.

One feels for Smith. He did okay (although not outstandingly) on poor pitches and against good bowling last summer, lost his place for the tour and, to be honest, had a miserable A tour - he did get the odd score, but was overshadowed by several much younger players.

Do you think that he has a chance of getting back into the side? Or has he blown it? We all assumed that the was sent to Malaysia and India to make a lot of runs and get himself back into the frame. By the end of the summer he'll be competing with Pietersen and probably Alex Gidman too.

[Tom Partis]

i also sympathise with smith, not just because i am a kent fan but i have a non biased view that he is potentially good enough to be a good international batsman. i think he could get back into the england team in the future because as you said, he wasn't outstanding, but he didn't shame himself either. right now, i'm happy that he's not, because a kent team without our two best batsmen of last year (smith and jones) would be severely weakened.