the middle allround order

[Oliver]

Hang on here Rachael, it's not just that we used to bumble along. England used to be a clear second at ODI cricket behind the West Indians.

The GAME has evolved. Sixty overs of ordinary cricket with over restrictions became 50 overs with restrictions on bowlers run ups too, and fielding positions. Later additions of the white ball and allowing the fielding side to change it when it wasn't doing what they wanted!!!

Ghastly coloured clothing. Because colour is more exciting than white?

The invention of the pinch hitter. The invention of opening the bowling with a spinner, a dobber, and then back to the quicks.

How about an entire team of all-rounders? Been done before...it'll be done again.

It's a short game, with a short history that is ever changing. I think, like magnolia, the England selection policy will come into vogue again.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Everyone is calling for blackwells head because he didnt bowl. Which a: isnt his fault the vaughan didnt use him b: Hadnt played a match since SL. He normally ties an end down (feel free to check figures) but cant do that if he isnt bowling. Perhaps he might have been used if we had batted first, Gayle was quite successful. Having said that I'm not sure there is room for clarke and blackwell, but one of them should play depending on pitch conditions.

[Oliver]

I'm not calling for Blackwell's head.

I'd be happy to see him given a run. He did put up that one extremely impressive score last season. Be nice to see him do that on the international stage.

But I haven't seen enough of him or Clarke bowling to make any realistic judgements.

[dezz]

i saw peng bat once in the flesh and i havn't seen anything like it since Mark waugh. That's why im keen on him. Collingwood is not going to average 40+ in test cricket. He has not got a)time at the crease b)temprament
anyway if we want to be the best we have to 'innovate' like australia. and since we have such great bowlers (jones, harmison, anderson, johnson, sadjid mahmood, gough) we ought to use them all in one day cricket and bowl the side out for 100! so we don't have to worry about how to bat and 'finding the gaps'. before you dismiss me have england ever played a team with 4 bowlers of that class? NO. if they did they'd win hands down

[Richard Jenkins]

Ill repeat myself.
I was chatting away to the Professor last night, working late into the night investigating the dynamics of cricket ball polish in our top secret lab in the Loire Valley (“no-one would expect cricket experiments in France” ,winked the Professor), when he lifted his half moon glasses up off his crooked nose and said “Jenkins, you know that Botham was the worst thing to happen to English cricket for a decade!”
I dropped the test tube of Amyl nitrate, and once I regained consciousness, the professor explained that “Since Bothams’ time, England team managers, and county sides had been endlessly looking for replacements to Ian Botham, who is the type of cricketer who comes around once in 50 years. Only five other players have the magic 200/3000, and lots of talent has been squandered and lots of cricketers burned out under the weight of “he’s the next Botham” expectation.

Even now, Freddy Flintoff gets the same expectations. And if were not careful he’ll go the same way as Craig White, Chris Lewis and Alex Tudor.”

I thought about this and remembered even Darren Gough being hailed as “the next Ian Botham”at the start of his career.

The professor continued , flecks of spittle foaming at his mouth. The difference between madness and genius is a fine line that the professor walks most days, I thought.

“Do we spend too much time searching for an all rounder to be in the team? Is an all rounder really a necessity or a luxury? Look at SA, who have two world class all -rounders. Still not a superb team are they?

Look at Australia, who don’t really have all rounders. Best team in the world. So why the fixation on all rounders? You don’t really need them to succeed. They’re are a big red herring.”

“Surely they help professor, look at England’s success in the 80’s” I stammered.

“Yes” smiled the professor. “But with Boycott, Gatting, Gower and Gooch in the team, and bowling talent to match, the team was superb even without Botham. Indeed he was banned for drug abuse (“ah yes, cannabis” I said “no thanks” said the professor) for a while, and England still won test matches without Botham. Indeed, they should have done better, winning the ashes more often and perhaps even won two world cups”

“But professor,” I stammered, “it’s just media hype, build ‘em up and shoot ‘em down”

The professor said “No lad, the days off the all rounder have passed away , and thank the Lord for that!”

“There will never be a time in cricket with similar results for all-rounders. Too much cricket is played and they get worn out ”

With that the professor placed his glasses back on his nose and said “Pass over that polish, Jenkins, I need to check my new red and white ball with the liquid Nitrogen centre”

And I was left to ponder the aluminium bats in the workshop, whilst Caroline the lab assistant helped polish my balls.

Has the professor been spending too long working on the dynamics of cricket ball polish? Is the medication wearing off? Will he save the world from the dangers of cricket ball polish? Can cricket balls really have liquid nitrogen centers?

Or does he have a point?

Apologies (and thanks) to Goatman and Farmer Giles who’s ideas started this off!

[Oliver]

Fortunately RMJ (said he as he waved his bat to the crowd in celebration of another half century) young Mr. Flintoff seems to be as good a bowler (if a little less dangerous) as all the other England pace boys, and he does seem to be able to bat a bit. So whether or not he's a good enough bat, he should stay in the side because his bowling's pretty useful.

His action is more natural than Craig White's (which at his fastest, included a huge delivery stride, that would certainly put a hell of a strain on his back...it did, and he can't do it now). Alex Tudor, according to one of his MANY physios, isn't really built for the five day game...so probably won't make it back, and Chris Lewis wasn't big on the work ethic...too pleased at just making the International scene, we will see his like again, sadly. But we won't see him.

Lehmann and Bevan never bowl do they? I think you might point out to the professor that there are quite a few top ranks bats who bowl a bit. I still think that if Trescothick runs back into form and he is retained for the forseeable...I still think he should bowl MORE.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

What was tresco's bowling like ? Any good ? I thought butcher was quite useful against Zim last year, although conditions and opposition helped. Any comparisons ?

[Notts Exile]

Think Collingwood is our Fairbrother replacement for sure. Fletcher seems to love him, why else would he give him a central contract?

When Pietersen becomes eligible in September we will have one place less up for grabs. Just my opinion but I don't see him failing, and boy does he know how to build an innings both one day and longer version.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

If he can bowl as well (which as a notts fan you might know better than others) he could solve so many problems until a decent spinner can be unearthed. Might make room for read too, at 8 probably.

[cantplaycantalk]

"i saw peng bat once in the flesh and i havn't seen anything like it since Mark waugh. That's why im keen on him. Collingwood is not going to average 40+ in test cricket. He has not got a)time at the crease b)temprament"

You saw him once, I've seen him a couple of dozen times, same with Collingwood. I saw Peng on debut hit 98 vs Surrey, and thought "this lad is something special". Since then you get brief flashes but only flashes. Collingwood is a different (better) class. That may change over the next 3-4 years but right now Peng is nowhere near international class.
If you want a youngster to add to the England ODI batting go for Bell or even Alistair Cook either one looks a better prospect than Peng. Even just from Durham I would as I've said in the past go for Gary Pratt ahead of Peng, he is at least as good a batsman and his fielding is outstanding.

"anyway if we want to be the best we have to 'innovate' like australia. and since we have such great bowlers (jones, harmison, anderson, johnson, sadjid mahmood, gough) we ought to use them all in one day cricket and bowl the side out for 100! so we don't have to worry about how to bat and 'finding the gaps'. before you dismiss me have england ever played a team with 4 bowlers of that class? NO. if they did they'd win hands down"

No Flintoff? one of the best ODI bowlers in the world at present.
ODI's are not Tests, field restrictions and restrictions on where you can bowl make a difference.
Flintoff and Gough looked like getting wickets, Harmison didn't.