Changes in the England team? (Tom Partis branch)

[CJ D]

To start the summer I would bring in Strauss for Hussain and consider jigging the order around to be:

Strauss
Butcher
Vaughan
Thorpe
Collingwood
Trescothick
G Jones
Flintoff
Hoggard
S Jones
Harmison

If he was available I would have Pieterson in for Collingwood. I think that Strauss and Butcher would be better suited to the first morning dig in that is required on early season pitches, although you could easily swap Vaughan and Butch round if you wanted - Tresco would be great coming in later and smashing Vetorri all over the shop. No place for Giles early season for obvious reasons. Collingwood gets my nod because he has been hanging around for a while and is obviously highly thought of by the management.

[Mike_Hock]

Good team, CJD, looks pretty strong on paper.

I would swap Butcher and Vaughan around for a couple of reasons -

1) Keep the Right Hand/Left Hand combo
2) Butcher has been very consistant @ no.3
3) Vaughan has proven that he can score runs opening and I feel Strauss would be a good foil for him.

I'm really looking forward to the NZ series now

[Mark Kidger]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

I wouldnt change much from wi except the awful giles for another bat. The bowlers have proved a bit already, lets see what else they can do. If we're awful in the first, we're not on tour we can change it around if needed.

That we can all agree upon!

[Mark Kidger]

Rachael, of course you would pick a bowler who is in the World's top 5 over Simon Jones! Who wouldn't? But the fact of life is that it is 35 years since England had the luxury of being able to select 4 bowlers who were all in the top 10 of the PwC ratings. That being the case you select from who is available. If I had an attack based on this reasoning the only English player in contention would be Harmison and I'm not even sure that I'd go for him.

Out of what is available, with a selection of fairly ordinary - no offense, there is an awful lot of them in the PwC top 50, meaning that they are convincing enough to be 3rd or 4th seamer - medium pacers, none of whom is Pollock material, Jones is as likely to run through a side as anyone. Yes, we could pick Johnson for a May greentop and he'd probably be able to do it pretty well, but he was found out pretty horribly in Sri Lanka on a flat pitch, having caused all kinds of mayhem on two bad pitches against the might of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. We could pick someone like him, but it's damned unfortunate for someone who has slogged through the winter and took a hammering at St. Johns to be dropped to accomodate him (and, if you were following that match, even though his first 8 or 9 overs were pretty awful later, when Lara was set, he came back and tightened up massively against two well-set batsmen who were looking to push the score along - it showed guts and an ability to come back from a truly awful start).

[Victor Frankenstein]

As i say, my concern was some of the commentators saying jones was tired and still not as match fit as he would like, but as you, caddick has been injured too so isn't exactly in a better boat. I guess my arguement would be that caddick at least has experience to fall back on, so he's recovering and playing from experience, rather than recovering and learning at the same time as the case with jones. But i agree with your points, if jones is happy to play and feels fit then he is the future and best to just stick with him, hoggard, harmison and flintoff should be able to take up any potential slack, and if they can't then it's all gone wrong anyway.

Re: batting lineups, i'd bring in strauss for giles, i know collingwood has been first choice but whilst i like collingwood a lot and think he's a good player with a good temperament, i don't think he'll ever turn into a world beater, although perhaps he could be our new stock player in place of hussain, with pieterson in for giles as the 'spinner' later on, leaving tresco and strauss to fight out for the opening berth perhaps. I like the suggestions for dropping tresco down the order, i get frustrated by the way he gives his wicket away and the fact he doesn't seem to have learnt much in his time in test cricket, but fundamentally he's a good player and perhaps down the order will give him a better opportunity to get those first runs on the board, after that he tends to settle more and score quickly.

Considering what everyone else has said then, i'd go for:

Vaughan
Strauss
Butcher
Collingwood
Thorpe
Trescothick
G.Jones
Flintoff
Hoggard
S.Jones
Harmison

I've dropped nass simply because he doesn't look like he'll ever be a consistent 50/100 scorer again and whilst he deserves to have 100 caps for all he's done for england, we got sentimental about stewart and wasted time finding a replacement, we should give ourselves the full 3 summer series to find nass' replacement or potential competition for pieterson and long term possible replacements for thorpe, collingwood is capable of doing the same job that nass has done during the winter, holding the line and getting a partnership going to disturb the bowling.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Blimey we almost seemed agreed on a team ! I know theres been alot of talk about jones the bowl, should johnson ,anderson, kirtly etc etc be brought in instead. Without tempting fate, touching wood etc, we must relise how lucky we were to get all 3 seamers through a series which hasnt happened since, what 2001 ? I'd love it if we could get through all the NZ series without losing one but its still a possibility.

What the selectors go and pick giles anyway !

[Mark Kidger]

Almost agreed. Rachael is still holding out for Shaun Pollock instead of Jones, but I suspect that the SACB may be unhappy about that one.

It would indeed be nice to go through consecutive series with an unchanged attack (Giles didn't count). Winning sides tend to be sides that don't get injured - or rather, when the side keeps winning, bowlers seem less prone to suffer injuries.

[Mark Kidger]

Victor, the difference between Jones and Caddick in my book is that Jones has a 25 year old body that will logically heal faster. Caddick's is getting on for 36 and a year out of the game with a serious injury takes longer to get over. Jones is not match fit yet? Well, if with a young body and a comeback that has lasted 9 months he's still not really match fit, does anyone seriously believe that Caddick will miraculously be ready any quicker?

[cantplaycantalk]

Well if you are bowling the opposition out for around 250 most of the time, you don't spend as long bowling, don't bowl when your really tired and as a result have less chance of getting injured.

[Victor Frankenstein]

only going on what fletcher and co have said about him, not too sure either why he wouldn't be match fit considering he played in two series and didn't break down, but i guess his injury was so horrific that it's harder to get over? can only comment on what others have said, the days of fletcher phoning me up and asking me for advice on team selection have long since gone since i said my gran could bowl better than saggers and she then returned figures of 5-0-82-0, it was an embarrasing day for our family i can tell you (although in her defence she's been dead for quite some time and i still feel if butcher hadn't dropped that sitter she could have changed the match).