Next Bothams

[The Great DonTalon]

add david capel to that list as well

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Rich Greenfield

He was captain for his 1 and only test!

Not so Rich. He was captain for his one and only Test in England. But he played all five Tests on the 84/85 series under David Gower in India.

He was rubbish then too.

[Oliver]

hol, the Barnett thing was funny at the time. Obviously everybody was much younger then. Nobody knew whether or not Barnett was Test class as he hadn't had a game at that point.
They all knew from the Indian tour that Cowdrey was incapable. Barnett was rather more regularly purveying his leg-spin back then, which was useful and DIFFERENT. Now, we know that he was a pretty ordinary bowler.

Barnett appeared to be a successful (or at least intelligent) county captain, and he was an adequate and awkward opening bat.

There is a school of thought that suggests that England's first four should ALL be county openers. Openers, by definition being your best batsmen.

At the time Barnett WAS the right man for the job. (Brearley's batting hardly set the world alight, but he was certainly the right man in 1981).

However Barnett's father was not a fine English gentleman and highly respected major batting star from a former era.

If ever the Old Boys Network came through for someone in English cricket, it was then for Chris Cowdrey.

When Gower was nearing the end of his career the Old Boys came through again for coach Mickey Stewart's son. But I can't remember his name. I wasn't a fan.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Although barnetts technique was individual at best, he was a consistant county performer. Idont know his test average, someone will tell me, but he never seemed to get a fair crack of the whip.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

Although barnetts technique was individual at best, he was a consistant county performer.

He played four Tests admittedly averaging just under 30. He made 66 on debut v. Sri Lanka and 80 in his second Test a year later v. Australia at Headingley (1989). In that Test he batted at three behind Gooch (13) and Broad (37) and put on 114 with Allan Lamb. Australia made 601 in the first innings and despite a second innings 64 from Gooch and Barnett (34) and Gower (34) the Aussies won by an innings and 210 runs.

The damage was done...not good enough to hold onto his position at three (114) runs in two innings, he was dropped down to five and then out of the side. Replaced by such luminaries as the tried and trusted Tavare and Tim Curtis!!

Oh to be the son of a famous England cricketer. Perhaps Kim Boycott or (Basinger leaps into mind - can't think why?)

Pehaps Kim Barrington. Yes I think he might have got a few more Tests.

[Teatime FatCat]

Because I am sad, but also inquisitive, I popped off to have a look at some Test figures for some of the 'next Bothams' we have been discussing (I don't get out much!) -

Lewis - 32 tests 1105 runs (@23.02) 93 wkts (@37.52)
Flintoff - 33 tests 1409 runs (@27.62) 63 wkts (@42.31)
White - 30 tests 1053 runs (@24.46) 59 wkts (@37.62)
Croft - 21 tests 421 runs (@16.19) 59 wkts (@37.24)
Cork - 37 tests 864 runs (@18.00) 131 wkts (@29.81)
Pringle - 30 tests 695 runs (@15.10) 70 wkts (@35.97)
Tudor - 10 tests 229 runs (@19.08) 28 wkts (@34.39)
Capel - 15 tests 374 runs (@15.58) 21 wkts (@50.66)


Out of the 30 test boys Flintoff, White and Lewis have the superior averages. But of the three Chris Lewis has the better wicket tally and bowling average. Cork has the best bowling average, but his batting is one of the poorest. so the perfect English all-rounder is a combination of Chris Lewis and Dominic Cork.

However, I would say that I think Freddy's batting average will go up another 5 points, whilst his bowling ave will come down comprabaly - his his figures will easily surpass any of the above.

sad to see not a single one with a batting ave in the 30's. Incidentally, Botham;s aves were Bt 33.54 & Bwl 28.40 - so Freddy could match it (not sure about the bowling ave though!).

[Notts Exile]

If Chris Lewis had Dominic Cork's determination then HE would have been the Man. However, he didn't, end of story.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat

Lewis - 32 tests 1105 runs (@23.02) 93 wkts (@37.52)
Flintoff - 33 tests 1409 runs (@27.62) 63 wkts (@42.31)
White - 30 tests 1053 runs (@24.46) 59 wkts (@37.62)
Croft - 21 tests 421 runs (@16.19) 59 wkts (@37.24)
Cork - 37 tests 864 runs (@18.00) 131 wkts (@29.81)
Pringle - 30 tests 695 runs (@15.10) 70 wkts (@35.97)
Tudor - 10 tests 229 runs (@19.08) 28 wkts (@34.39)
Capel - 15 tests 374 runs (@15.58) 21 wkts (@50.66)

I think these figures show Flintoff on a very favourable light. They also put Botham in a VERY favourable light.

I was a White fan, but not a Lewis fan...I am glad to see that Flintoff compares favourably with those two too.

[sostenurter]

[quote=Teatime FatCat]
Lewis - 32 tests 1105 runs (@23.02) 93 wkts (@37.52)
Flintoff - 33 tests 1409 runs (@27.62) 63 wkts (@42.31)
White - 30 tests 1053 runs (@24.46) 59 wkts (@37.62)
Croft - 21 tests 421 runs (@16.19) 59 wkts (@37.24)
Cork - 37 tests 864 runs (@18.00) 131 wkts (@29.81)
Pringle - 30 tests 695 runs (@15.10) 70 wkts (@35.97)
Tudor - 10 tests 229 runs (@19.08) 28 wkts (@34.39)
Capel - 15 tests 374 runs (@15.58) 21 wkts (@50.66)

[quote]

It's interesting that none of them seem to have played more than 30 odd Tests. Yuo'd have to back Flintoff to play a lot more than that. He's the only one of the above players who has reached his 30th Test still young, relatively injury free and not only in good form, but improving. If he carries on in good form and stays injury free, he could well do the 200 wickets/3000 runs double. He should make 300 runs - don't know about the wickets. That probably depends on how long Butcher fields in the slips for

[James M]

Cork looks the best to me in terms of stats. If only he'd been a slightly better bat, although he was a matchwinner with bat or ball. In terms of technique we all know he lost his ability to swing the ball and regressed rapidly thereafter.