Back to the Future

[sostenurter]

Tudor - well, obviously, I'd love to see him play for England again, IF he can stay injury free - it just seems very unlikely he ever will stay injury free. And of course, there are questions over his attitude.

Key - never, never, never - of all the players you mention he was the one who was given a good run in the side - 8 almost consecutive Tests, one tour. He's had his chance.

Salisbury - nope, can't see it.

Solanki - stay in the ODI set-up but don't let him near Tests.

Afzaal - maybe worth a trial in the one-dayers - there's a spot there for a good young batsman.

Owais Shah - give him another crack at ODIs

Would also like to see Ed Smith still in the frame for Tests - he did reasonably against very good bowling in the summer.

However, at present, it is going to be very hard for a bowler to get in the side, because at present there are 6 candidates well ahead of the rest - Harmison, Hoggard, Jones, Flintoff, Caddick, Anderson. 5 of those 6 are young with (hopefully) a big future. So, barring a dramatic loss of form and/or a severe injury crisis (both of which are not unknown in England bowlers!), a fast bowler will have to do something special to get a chance.

The batting is more open because of possible retirements in the next couple of years, but I would still say that Collingwood and Strauss are first in line as replacements for injury or retirement. However, there are gaps in the ODI side for batsmen (generally younger batsmen).

Obviously, if someone is good enough, they will get into the side - it's not like we're Australia and can afford to keep someone like Michael Clarke hanging around on the sidelines! But for players who have already had a go in the side and have been dropped, for whatever reason, it will be very hard to get back in. However, at the moment I am looking at it in the context of a successful side - if we lose the series against NZ things will look a lot different and there will be a lot more places up for grabs!

[Whips_off_the_bails]

I have a vague recollection that Ian Salisbury's career figures are the worst in test match history. Is this correct?

For the record in 15 matches he took 20 wickets at 76.95. His best bowling figures were 4/163 in Georgetown in 1993/4.

[Kirsty Harris]

Wow! if those stats are correct, it just goes to show how dire Sailsbury was!!!

[cantplaycantalk]

Don't forget to factor in Pietersen and possibly Mahmood as another batsman and bowler respectively.

[high_on_linseed]

"I have a vague recollection that Ian Salisbury's career figures are the worst in test match history. Is this correct?
For the record in 15 matches he (Salisbury) took 20 wickets at 76.95. His best bowling figures were 4/163 in Georgetown in 1993/4."

Yes, Salisbury was never very good in tests. But, there are afew things to look at here before we condemn him. In his early appearences, he was young, very under-cooked, and relatively untutored. He never had the benefit of the Academy. He was just expected to go in and bowl his brand of leg-spin against some murderous batting line-ups, often on unhelpful English test pitches. Surely, at 33, he is a much better bowler now than then. One year, believe it or not, he was player of the year in Australian grade cricket. You simply cant do that unless you are a good bowler. And ask Saqlain, who we can all agree is a fine spinner, how he rates Salisbury. His answer would certainly not be "dire".

Secondly, name me another Enlgish leg-spinner. Schofield? Whats he doing now? Name me another spinner who casn actually turn it as much as Salisbury. Ill give you a hint, there isnt one.

Now, Im not claiming Salisbury is the next Shane Warne, but when you look around Englsih cricket, he has been the most consistent match-winning English spinner, out there. More so than Tufnell. Certainly more so than Giles. Would he not benefit from some intensive coaching and sports psychology. The problem is do we actually have a coach who can turn a decent county leg-spinner (listen toi those words and digest how rare this guy is...a DECENT COUNTY LEG SPINNER!!) into a test quality one? It seems not Weve spent god knows how much money into getting the seamers right (and rightly so), transforming Freddie into a genuine threat, polishing Kabir with Dennis Lille, Troy Cooley and all that jazz. But what direction have the spinners been given? At 33, this guy could still have what six years left in him, if something was done NOW to try to take his potential and turn it into a test-winning commodity.

But it wont be, and theyll keep on putting their efforts into Dawson, Batty, or whatever other very mediocre spinner they turn up, just because they can handle off-break bowling but dont have a clue what to do with a leggie. Shame? i think so.

[high_on_linseed]

These are new untried talents. I was talking about guys weve already looked at and dropped, just to make it clear. Sorry.

[high_on_linseed]

Just to give you some idea of what a wasted talent this guy was. He made his debut against Pakistan in 92 at the age of 22. He was bowling to a middle order that read from 4 down:
Javed Miandad, Sailm Malik, Inzaman-al-Haq, Moin Khan, and Wasim!! He actually came away from that baptism of fire with five wickets at an average of under 25. So, how can you say, he was never test class? He was test class, its just that the coaches and management never knew how to develop him.

[Rachael]

To be honest, HOL, in 1992 the only cricketers who stood a chance were those with skins so thick that angle grinders wouldn't penetrate and minds so strong you could hit cricket balls with them.

If we'd had a series of great captains in the manner of Brearley, Reeve, Alleyne or even Hussain (and coaches and selectors to match) then the story of England from 1992 to the present day would, I'm sure, be one to celebrate - and guys like Caddick, Ramps, Hick and Tufnell (and possibly Salisbury) would have gone on to become England greats.

I'm pleased that in Fletcher we finally have someone in charge who can at least get the best out of SOME players... but I still incline towards despair: he seems committed to filling the team with tough nuts with the mental strength he admires (and forcing others to emulate them) rather than getting together the most technically gifted players and creating the conditions in which they might thrive.

There's a lot to admire in the way Fletcher and Hussain moulded a team in their own image... but I really do hope that in the next year or two someone like Reeve or Alleyne takes over and starts showing that it is possible to get ANY cricketer to punch above his weight.

Sadly, I don't see it happening: the damage of the Gooch era was just symptomatic of a deeper English prejudice that favours blood and guts give it all types with technical limitations over technically superb players who struggle with nerves, confidence or pressure.

Very sad.

[Whips_off_the_bails]

Originally Posted by high_on_linseed

Just to give you some idea of what a wasted talent this guy was. He made his debut against Pakistan in 92 at the age of 22. He was bowling to a middle order that read from 4 down:
Javed Miandad, Sailm Malik, Inzaman-al-Haq, Moin Khan, and Wasim!! He actually came away from that baptism of fire with five wickets at an average of under 25. So, how can you say, he was never test class? He was test class, its just that the coaches and management never knew how to develop him.

I'm with you on the lack of specialist coaching for spinners, h_o_l. And England captains have been hopeless in knowing how to handle spinners. Hence the transformation of Phil Tufnell from the match-winning spinner he was occasionally when he started in test cricket, to the defensive, negative bowler he became under Atherton.

But Salisbury has had plenty of chances to prove himself. He was tried as recently as the Pakistan tour of 2001. He took one wicket in three matches at an average of 193, thereby achieving the feat of making his already poor average much, much worse. On the other hand, he had a batting average of 42 (in these three matches)!

He was replaced by Robert Croft for the Sri Lankan leg of the tour. Croftie had pretty good figures on that tour, as he usually did in overseas matches, and might have re-established himself in the team if he hadn't pulled out of the next winter's tour to India for security reasons (the self-importance of sportsmen knows no bounds).

I don't know why there was such a fantastic gap between Salisbury's excellent country record and his test performances, but I don't think it can be totally down to coaches and captains. Possibly he never recovered from the mauling he was given by Hansie Cronje and Jayasuriya early in his test career.

Something needs to be done, though, to restore the art of spin to the England game (maybe Peter Mandelson could be hired as specialist coach? ) Let's face it, we will never be a top side until we have at least one world-class spinner.

[Notts Exile]

Afzaal was in some ways unfortunate. There can't be many discards who actually scored a half century against the Aussies in their last Test!