Changes in the England team?(other branches)

[Mark Kidger]

I don't know if anyone has read the article on the BBC tonight, but it seems that changes in the England team may be in order sooner rather than later and Andrew Strauss is eyeing an opening in the middle order.

The suggestion seems to be that Trescothick is, for now, safe - as he does average over 40 still one could say that he has proved that he is a class act - but that Nasser Hussain's place is, once again, under threat.

This was a perenial topic of debate on the BBC MB. Hussain would reach his 100th cap this summer in the 2nd Test against the West Indians (assuming that he doesn't miss a game). I, for one, have assumed that his intention is to reach the 100th cap and then announce that he will be retiring from international cricket at the end of the summer, leaving it to the selectors to decide whether to let him see out the series or try his replacement.

However, seeing as last year the selectors probably erred by letting sentiment allow Alec Stewart to reach his 100th cap when his form with bat and gloves was slipping a little (not that we noticed until Read took over and we saw an artist at work with the gloves), it may be that Hussain isn't given the same leeway.

I would argue strongly that only incremental changes in the side should be carried out. We have already had one significant change with Read handing over to Jones and a second major change could just unsettle the side (particularly as Ashley Giles must, surely, find himself surplus to requirements against New Zealand and that will also imply a change in the side and its balance). Would the selectors be right to drop Hussain now? Or should they wait until after the New Zealand series to make further changes - possibly Strauss for Hussain?

If we apply the rule of thumb: "no more than 2 changes in the side from the 4th Test", what changes should they be? Assuming Giles is dropped, who should replace him in the side? One assumes that it would be an extra batsman rather than another seamer or spinner and that England will rely on 4 seamers plus Butcher/Trescothick/Vaughan, which should be enough on green, seaming May pitches.

[Captain Applehead]

Much as I admire Hussain (I really do) I think this is now the time for change. His batting in the W.I. was great for it's grit & determination, but beyond that it seems that he is a player in decline.

It would be good to see one of Strauss or Collingwood given an extended run over the Summer to see whether they can handle test cricket. If we don't do this, we will finish this Summer, Hussain will presumably retire, and we will have 3 new batting options for number 4 or 5 (if Thorpe bats at 4). These being Struass, Collingwood and Pieterson - and we won't have a good idea about any of them. If we give, say, Collingwood 5 tests this Summer, and he fails, the Pieterson/Strauss get a try.

Also, with the extra batting G ones provides, we should be strong enough to 'carry' a new batsman if it takes him 1/2 tests to find his feet.

This is my first post on this board, so it may not appear. I'll give it a try now. Seem to be some familiar names on here. Good news.

[Mark Kidger]

Originally Posted by Captain Applehead

This is my first post on this board, so it may not appear. I'll give it a try now. Seem to be some familiar names on here. Good news.

Yet another exile!

Remember that we have 3 Tests against New Zealand, 4 against the Windies and then 2 against Zim. That's 9 Tests before we even go into the absurdly compressed 4-Test series against South Africa. There's plenty of time to give someone a run in the side.

I'd be tempted to go with Hussain against New Zealand where we know the conditions and the opposition will be tough and where we really want a win to avenge 1999 and consolidate 3rd place in the ICC table.

[dezz]

Hussain does not deserve 100 caps. he dosn't average 40 and he'd only just scratch up there anyway. that's not how cricketers should be. we also don't want to be in the position of having a completely new batsman being thrown to the dogs in the ashes if hussain tours etc. get him out now so we can try strauss, collingwood, peng, carberry, key, bell possibly

[dezz]

my team...

1.trescothick(he'll come good, this is only his 2nd trough)
2.vaughn(c)
3.butcher
4.Thorpe
5.Strauss
6.g.jones
7.flintoff
8.johnson
9.jones
10.harmison
11.anderson

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Mark Kidger

If we apply the rule of thumb: "no more than 2 changes in the side from the 4th Test", what changes should they be? Assuming Giles is dropped, who should replace him in the side? One assumes that it would be an extra batsman rather than another seamer or spinner and that England will rely on 4 seamers plus Butcher/Trescothick/Vaughan, which should be enough on green, seaming May pitches.

Mark

I'll give you my thoughts on this. By the way I really like the fact that we can post to this board after 10pm at night! That was always a bit of a sticking point with me!

I think Hussain should/will be able to carry on playing till his 100th cap, if for no better reason than he deserves to. Whether others will agree, and more importantly the selectors - I don't know.

However, having said that I think it could well be useful, to be able to let him continue playing and deal with some of the other problems currently affecting the side - in my opinion Hussain is the least of their problems right now.

The biggest problem in my mind - is the two openers failures. Which are becoming somewhat more regular now than they've ever been - and this must be the cause of some concern. I'm not just talking in terms of runs, but of exposing the middle order to the new ball which could have dire consequences against NZ.

So, something really does need to be done about those two openers, and as Vaughan is virtually 'untouchable' as Captain, and Tresco clearly is out of form - in my mind Tresco needs to go back to County Cricket for a while to get some confidence back and Strauss should be brought in to open. I'd also like to see Vaughan drop down the order, and maybe try Butcher as the other opener.

Now I can come back to the Hussain situation, yes Hussain will be retiring soon enough, but I don't think until he's got his 100th cap, which, with a bit of luck could well coincide with Tresco's return to form, so as Hussain retires - Tresco could come back in and open with Strauss. I still feel strongly that Vaughan would do better in the middle order - coming in at No. 3 or 4 - he's a natural stroke maker, and I think the reason he's getting out so early as an opener is because he's trying to play his shots (a natural part of his game) too early on in an innings combined with the fact that he's still a young Captain and has a lot going on in his mind to come out an open an innings.

Regarding the dropping of Giles, I agree with Botham's comments on this - play your best 4 bowlers, if that doesn't include a spinner - its because we don't have a world class spinner. So I'd play 4 specialist seamers + Flintoff in the series against NZ. I really don't agree with dropping Giles and merely bringing in another batsman - thats weakining the bowling attack, which is their biggest strength right now to strengthen the batting - deal with the problems in the batting department, don't just put a bandaid over the problem.

The failures of those two openers really are causing BIG problems for England right now.

Scott

[CJ D]

There has been a suggestion on this board a couple of weeks ago that Tresco was pulling Vaughan down to his level - by going for shots before he was set, it was making Vaughan play in a similar way - if you drop Tresco down the order and open with Strauss and Vaughan then this won't happen - I would however like to see Vaughan drop to 3 and Butch open with Strauss.

I don't think there is any point in putting in another front line seamer - if Harmy, Jones, Hoggs and Freddie can't do it who can - with Butch, Tresco, Vaughan and Collingwood you have enough part time bowling to take a bit of workload off the big boys (and on nice juicy May pitches they will not be that easy to score off) this would change as the pitches dry out and maybe a spinner would be useful - then you drop the underperforming bat.

[cantplaycantalk]

I would agree with that and tend to go for Strauss and Collingwood in for Giles and Hussain (tough on Nas but with batting down to 8 I think we can risk retiring him a little early) That way we get to see which of Strauss, Collingwood and Trescothic perform and we can drop the weakest when things begin to dry out and we need a spinner (if we need a spinner)

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by CJ D

There has been a suggestion on this board a couple of weeks ago that Tresco was pulling Vaughan down to his level - by going for shots before he was set, it was making Vaughan play in a similar way - if you drop Tresco down the order and open with Strauss and Vaughan then this won't happen - I would however like to see Vaughan drop to 3 and Butch open with Strauss.

I don't think there is any point in putting in another front line seamer - if Harmy, Jones, Hoggs and Freddie can't do it who can - with Butch, Tresco, Vaughan and Collingwood you have enough part time bowling to take a bit of workload off the big boys (and on nice juicy May pitches they will not be that easy to score off) this would change as the pitches dry out and maybe a spinner would be useful - then you drop the underperforming bat.

CJ D

How often have you seen Harmison, Hoggard, Jones and Flintoff actually bowl in a four innings, five day Test Match? Do I need to remind you (I accept it was a batsman friendly pitch) how well this quarter performed in the last Test Match against the WI? Five wickets in two and a half days?

Scott

[CJ D]

Scott

How much use was the extra bowler in Antigua? - not much - okay it was a spinner and most of us would agree that you should play your best bowlers not include a spinner for the sake of it, however good though Anderson, Caddick and Johnson are/could be I don't see that they would add the extra edge to the attack that you are suggesting, if 4 can't do it I don't see how 5 will - just my opinion but I will stick with it.