"Foreign" English Players. So What?

[Essex Eagle]

You can't judge a player purely on stats in county cricket anyway.

Tres was picked with a FC avg of 29 ....... now averages 41 in tests

Vaughan was picked - avg of 30 ........now averages 45

Hick FC avg 48 .......you know the rest.

There are lots of talented players in the wings

[Essex Eagle]

Originally Posted by James M

Even if it was the difference between winning nad losing the Ashes??

If the 1st 5 in the batting line up were Tendulkar,Dravid,Law,Ponting etcetc....... yeah i get great pride out of that.

[James M]

Yeah but the point is that if someone is scoring 1,000s of runs, it's easier to say he's good than if someone's out before they can show their class. That's not to say that the one's who score floods of runs are going to seemlessly transfer to Tests and the others will struggle. I'm just saying that you can't be ignored if you put runs on the board. Otherwise, you have to hope that Geoff Miller or whoever is at an outground near you! The point is, whi is doing this who's young and English? Bell is a very good player but due to selection flaws will not play for ages cos he's not scoring the runs.

[James M]

And we've always had our England players born in the Home Counties and brought up at Eton?? Ranjitsinghi???

[cantplaycantalk]

Havn't read the full post. I am in a rush.

"Foreign" English players... Well it seems to work OK for the French football team, so why not.

[Pete]

If they want to play for England, really want to play for us. Then I've not got a problem with that. I just don't want Law playing, simply because he just wants to play for himself. At least with Kev his mum was English and he commited himself to play for England. I don't know much about the guy, but alot of people seem to think he's the best thing since sliced bread. So if he's that good, then surely it shows how commited the guy is to playing for England? Like, him having to go through the qualifying period. If he just wanted to play test cricket he could have stayed in South Africa and maybe got into international cricket quicker?

[honestbharani]

I am not an English guy, so I don't know how you guys look at it. But I think if Law is making so many runs, then, he must be given a chance in the side whenever he is eligible. Give him a run, see what effect it has on the team, like the spirit, the runs he can score, if he is still good, his fitness. Everything should be considered and then a decision must be made whether it is worth to have him in the side ahead of younger guys, perhaps not as talented as him...




And one thing that is amazing me is the posts saying that you want him in the side so that you can win the ashes. Surely, winning the Ashes the next time or during the next tour after that should not matter. And I think it will feel better when you win it with your own talent, rather than guys like Law who are imported, unlike Hussain or Pieterson or even Hick.

[Whips_off_the_bails]

Over my dead body.

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by James M

It is not the colonialist argument that I am against. It's just that for every Hick, Pietersen, Grieg, Hussain etc etc, just imagine how many non-English born EU qualified players there are clogging up the system. I'm sorry, but as much as I admire the way Sven Koenig/Nic Pothas play there's no way I'd consider them Test standard.

Koenig is clearly better than many home-grown players, or he wouldn't get a game. As far as I am concerned this is a good thing for the county game, as it drives up standards. Many ENG batsman are great at battering part-time wobbly medium pacers, but when they come up against genuine pace, class spin or even just an attack including 4-5 bowlers of genuine quality, they go comepletely to peices. MAny ENG bowlers find that in county cricket it is enough to bowl lively away swingers and wait for the second rate bat facing them to make an error, and then go for 150-1 in the first innnings of a test because they have absolutely no penetration. During the 70's-80's IND recognised that they had a problem finding fast bowlers/ playing fast bowling and so they imported a whole load of second string WI players and ex-WI test players, with a genunely positive result - players like Zaheer khan and Irfan Pathan can be seen as decendants of this strategy, and the IND batsmen certainly do not still have the weakness against pace they used to have.

As far as I am concerned, county cricket is far too big a thing to get completely filled with EU passport holders / other "imports", and if through them we can expose our batsmen to second rate spinners from Asia (who are better than ours), second rate fast bowlers from Africa/Australia (who are better than ours) and make our bwolers work harder for thier wickets by playing them against stronger batting teams, then I'm all for it. IN any case, if his county management had a test quality opener on thier books or just felt they had a youngster who might be, Koenig would be shunted out fairly quickly for the simple reason that he is not test class.

[Teatime FatCat]

I'm the first to admit that we have selected players in the past who have played for us despite being born in a different coutnry. Many of those cases have been out of necessity such as Lamb, the Smiths, Grieg etc becuase they could not play Test cricket at all. People like Nass, Dev, Syd Lawrence and Ramps I think were bought over by their families and adopted England as their country. Furthermore I think White and the Hollioakes were born British and then moved to Aus. However dubious these reasons might be, they are reasons nonetheless and I don't feel that any of these players were taking the ***** out of the British system. To the best of my knowledge, they were all of a suitable age, in good form, had played and lived in England for a long time, and had not represented another International Team / country of their Birth.


I must just be old-fashioned, but no - I wouldn't be comfortable picking Law for a year on the basis of england winning the ashes. I don't believe as a 37 year old player he is the one thing that would stand between us and Australia. I would prefer to win - or at least effectively compete - in the Ashes with a bunch of home-grown, or home affiliated talent winning it for us. That would make me proud, and I think that would inspire British youngsters.

Isn't it interesting that as potential qualification becomes (very) close, this is the first we have heard about Law's potential for England? I seem to remember Hick and Pitersons intentions and qualification periods being reported early and extensively. I wonder if he is as committed to England as his Australian counterpart - Andrew Symonds?