"Foreign" English Players. So What?

[high_on_linseed]

Ok, to change the subject, because this has become the Stuart Law thread, and he was originally included just as an afterthought. And because a similar thread is currently getting no takers, what about this Claude Henderson guy? To summarize, he is a South African spinner who has abandoned South Africa (for now!), and I read he is qualified for England (if so, when?) on an EU passsport. Im guessing because hes some anglo-dutch-south african hybrid.

Hes a left-arm orthodox spinner. Hes already played seven tests for South Africa. But, for whatever reason, he was finding it hard to get in the team ahead of Adams and Boje!! Hes currrently turning out for Leicestershire as a non-foreign player.

I just wondered if anyone had seen him bowl? And, if so, is he any better than Giles? Im guessing he is about as Englsih as "Stollen" and "Seal-Flipper Pie", but IF hes better than Giles, would you stick him in the English test side, given that spin is still our achilles heel. As I said originally, Pieterson is obviously a shoo-in. So the question is, where do we draw the line, if at all....

Is it youth, or commitment, parentage, or a kind of undefined "Englishness" that is the deciding factor for you guys. Or raw talet? Should there be a quota system on "Enlgish-qualified" players, or do we want to be the Chelsea of international cricket, heaven help us! Discuss, any of the above, to your hearts content, but mainly I want to know if this Henderson guy is any good (ie. can he turn it/ can he help us win matches?)!!!

[Nikhil]

Originally Posted by high_on_linseed

Ok, to change the subject, because this has become the Stuart Law thread, and he was originally included just as an afterthought. And because a similar thread is currently getting no takers, what about this Claude Henderson guy? To summarize, he is a South African spinner who has abandoned South Africa (for now!), and I read he is qualified for England (if so, when?) on an EU passsport. Im guessing because hes some anglo-dutch-south african hybrid.

Hes a left-arm orthodox spinner. Hes already played seven tests for South Africa. But, for whatever reason, he was finding it hard to get in the team ahead of Adams and Boje!! Hes currrently turning out for Leicestershire as a non-foreign player.

I just wondered if anyone had seen him bowl? And, if so, is he any better than Giles? Im guessing he is about as Englsih as "Stollen" and "Seal-Flipper Pie", but IF hes better than Giles, would you stick him in the English test side, given that spin is still our achilles heel. As I said originally, Pieterson is obviously a shoo-in. So the question is, where do we draw the line, if at all....

Is it youth, or commitment, parentage, or a kind of undefined "Englishness" that is the deciding factor for you guys. Or raw talet? Should there be a quota system on "Enlgish-qualified" players, or do we want to be the Chelsea of international cricket, heaven help us! Discuss, any of the above, to your hearts content, but mainly I want to know if this Henderson guy is any good (ie. can he turn it/ can he help us win matches?)!!!

I have seen him bowl in test matches against the Oz and as a matter of fact, he looked ordinary to me. Infact, just looked at his stats and they look awful against the Oz. If he was dropped for Boje, that speaks volumes.

I think England should find some reasonable spinner of higher calibre than Henderson.

[high_on_linseed]

Fair enough. Anyone else seen him?

[Teatime FatCat]

I've seen him bowl and he looked distinctly average at test level. Unfortunately it wouldn't surprise me if he'll be a more than decent bowler at county level, that picks up a few wickets.

However - and here's the rub - he's come over here to play because he doesn't agree with the selection policies in SA (ie he keeps getting dropped) - it must be true 'cos I read it in the papers. Therefore, he's not English, he's not even close to be being English, he has expressed no desire to play for, or committed his future to England - he's a soldier of fortune.

Wouldn't even consider him.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by high_on_linseed

Bell is the quote-unquote classiest young batsman out there.

But HOL, there is one problem. Bell hasn't performed to a high enough standard since his first season or so. I can't believe he'll get selected until he puts together some decent scores.

Anyway, Pietersen is the Bright Young Thing.

[Notts Exile]

and as for Henderson, he may be allowed to play for Leicestershire due to the Kolpak ruling but he's still classified as a South African. He can't play for England. (my understanding).

[Teatime FatCat]

Thank Biltong for that!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by sostenurter

in the 80s though, casual cricket fans would have thought that beating the WI was the thing to do, because we hadn't beaten them in donkey's years, and they were as good then as the Aussies are now. So I think our defeat of the WI, while it obviously isn't as impressive as beating the Aussies would be, will inspire a lot of casual cricket fans, who remember our losses to WI and aren't entirely aware of how much the WI have declined. It will probably do more for cricket in this country than beating NZ would, even though that is a much tougher series that will give a true barometer of England's progress. Also, the media will pay much more attention to any match against the WI. In a perverse way, Lara's 400 has ensured that this will continue - and that England will get more praise for beating the WI than NZ, as they have a bona fide world star.

yes before we all get carried away,it is worth remembering this is the first time we have beaten them in yonks,west Indies are a bigger attraction than New Zealand,just because of who they are,and NZ are probably the better team.
Yes Laras 400 will have added spice to the summer series,he will be the man of the moment.seems a little unfair to New Zealand.
If England beat New Zealand,and then go on to beat the Windies,then we can at last say we are on the way.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Essex Eagle

the moment we play law, who has never regarded himself as English or dedicated his career to England.... then we will have lost all self respect for ourselves.

we will just give the aussies another stick with which to beat us, plus what does it do to the young english kids trying to get in the team if they are ousted by a 37 year old Aussie..nonsense

Pietersen is a different case, inlike Law he is 21, has never played representative cricket for SA and has dedicated himself to our team.

We should not play Law,he is Australian.The Ausies would love it beating us with him in the team,it has happened before with a Kent bowler,can`t for the life of me think of his name.

[cantplaycantalk]

Derbyshire vs Durham today. Durham 2 overseas players 8 home grown plus one from Surrey. Derbyshire 6 English 5 Non-English (2 SA, 1 Aus, 1 Zim, 1 India)
Durham in addition missing 2 players on international duty, (not something Derbyshire are overburdened with)

Both counties I believe get the same grant from the ECB. Which do you think is doing more to earn the money?

OK so Derby are doing nothing against the laws of the game, but why should the ECB be subsidising foreigners?