Prediction League - England Vs New Zealand

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

Ernest

With the amount of cricket being played now, it is important that steps are taken to protect fast bowlers, for the reason you outline. Ian Bothem (showing once again how little he actually knows about cricket!) seems to think the best OD side should be almost the same as your test side. This is a bit of nonsense, even putting aside the different approaches and attitudes required to the game.

Those idots responsible for scheduling games are really going to have to get there acts together and actually THINK about building in breaks into the schedule for test sides.

Kirsty

Thank for the info

There is a school of thought that the Test squad shoud be the same as the one day squad,not as much there days I am glad to say.
Ian Botham would have played any were, any time,any place,however the scheduling was not as severe when he played,and he played to much cricket I think.

The idiots responsible for the scheduling of series,have vested interest,more sponsership cash.Money speaks in the end.Look at football there are the greats, and there are the rest.

I hope that a bit of common sence comes into the cricket,a seperste Test side,and a seperate one day side (as much as possible)and then the sceds wont matter the same,a bit of leeway for batsmen in moderation maybe.

Lets hope Trescos one day barrage,has brought him back into some form,there will be some slips in the tests though.

[Kirsty Harris]

Ernest

Bothem was a great player, but not a great thinker - that's why he was such a terrible captin, I reakon! He doesn't seem to understand that we aren't still in the 1980's!

I don't see the two sides being complete seperate, though, players like Flintoff, Tres, Strauss (?) are always going to be in both sides. Ideally, though, Flintoff would play in fewer games..

As for 'the idots' (this seems a good job title for them!), they would do well to remember that us, the paying public, want to see players at their best, not knackered and out of sorts! Some times quality is more important than quantity!

On an upbeat note, I've got a feeling Tres is going to have a good summer...

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

Ernest

Bothem was a great player, but not a great thinker - that's why he was such a terrible captin, I reakon! He doesn't seem to understand that we aren't still in the 1980's!

I don't see the two sides being complete seperate.

As for 'the idots' (this seems a good job title for them!), they would do well to remember that us, the paying public, want to see players at their best, not knackered and out of sorts! Some times quality is more important than quantity!

Good point about Botham,there was a huge wave of opinion that thought he would make a good captain,He wasn`t,he was to chummy with the opposition,in particular the West Indies.

I dont think he was as thick as you think,Ok Kirsty i would not like him as Englands coach,Keegan was the same in football,he was a terrible England manager,after being such a brilliant player.

Botham was (made) to resign,after only drawing with the Ausies ,I think at Lords,it was the year of Bothams ashes anyway.what I liked about botham,he was not afraid to speak his mind,he gave the Pink gin brigade at Lords what for,and there was nothing they could do about it.

And what a good point you make,we the paying public want to see the England players at their best,still think you should keep the two games as far apart as possible though.

They will always put Flintoff in the one day side though,why?because he is good box office,and draws the crowds in,that is what I dont like.He is better than a crash bang wallop player,but dont you get the feeling Kirsty,he is being billed more as a one dayer.

[Kirsty Harris]

Ernest

Afternoon! I don't think Bothems thick at all! My point is that he isn't a good THINKER - as captin, you have to be able to plan ahead (which bowlers to use when, what approach to take against a side, etc). This is an area Bothem struggled in. His approach seemed always to be go for it and hope for the best...and it was generally either a spectacular failure or success!! That's what made Bothem a great player, but bad captin - he lacks the ability to think things through. That's probably why he thinks test and OD sides should be largely the same - he can't think past the QUALITY of the players - doesn't see the strain all the extra cricket played now puts on them. But he is not stupid by any means. Lots of people (me included)find it hard to plan ahead!

Being a thinker/stratergist doesn't require someone to be really smart - an example would be Ronnie O'Sullivan, who isn't very bright at all, but can plan his breaks several moves ahead of where he is to brillent effect. That's one of the reasons he beat hendry so convincingly..he out though the master thinker!!!

Keegan is actually a good comparison of Bothem - very sharp observation!!!

As for Flintoff...yes he will always play one day cricket, yes he is much more than a crash bang wallep player, but no, I don't think he is being billed more as a OD player - not anymore, anyway. Certainly this time last year, there were still people who were looking at Flintoff that way, but he has improved so much in test matchs since then....

[Kirsty Harris]

Looking at the way the poll is going, it looks as though we are maintaining our usaul English caution in not getting our hopes up too high!!! 1 - 1? Come on!!! Lets be positive!!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

His approach seemed always to be go for it and hope for the best...and it was generally either a spectacular failure or success!! That's what made Bothem a great player



As for Flintoff...yes he will always play one day cricket, yes he is much more than a crash bang wallep player, but no, I don't think he is being billed more as a OD player - not anymore, anyway. Certainly this time last year, there were still people who were looking at Flintoff that way, but he has improved so much in test matchs since then....

Afternoon Kirsty

No Botham was not a good captain,but have you noticed he has never got a place with the admin,his face did not fit,did it? Rod marsh now is being wound up,he will soon be gone,same type of person as Botham.

Flintoff has a large following,thats the way I would put it,and will be expected to produce the goods,a lot more than the other players,some of his fans are die hard like myself,willing to support him through the rough times,but others I think are fairweather fans,see a cloud and they are off..

I want to see him established in the England side,a lot of people would say he already is,I am not so sure kirsty,just a feeling,and a snippet here,and a snippet there,make me think he has to keep on top of his game more than most.

England fans will ensure he has a future in the England test side,more tham any other consiseration.

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Electric Vic

What is perhaps more revealing is that a number of opinionated members are, as yet, unwilling or unable to distill their views into a forecast!!

EV

I've been happy enough to give my prediction. Of course it's going to be tough to predict, if we could predict things with any accuracy - we'd all be down the bookmakers making some money!

But I'm happy to add in my thoughts on your thoughts and on the series itself.

Originally Posted by Electric Vic

1) their batting is marginally stronger. The Kiwis racked up more than 500 twice against SA, and bat down the order. If Fleming fails, the likes of Styris and Cairns are capable of big scores. We know what Astle can do.

On paper, England are a strong batting line-up - but Tresco and Vaughan were in a tough for most of the WI series, Butcher really frustrates me because he seems to think he's done his bit once he gets past 50, and Nasser seems to have forgotten how to make big scores. Thorpe will be OK, but I'm not sure he'll get the support.

This is very debatable. There's no doubt England are having form problems right now, and some of the players are going through a 'run-drought' but don't underestimate how good Englands batting is and can be. It would only take a couple of players to hit some form - and England can put some decent total's up. I don't think this series will be decided on batting anyway - I think it will be decided on how well the bowlers do, and on English wickets that ball is going to move about a lot which is partly why I think Tresco is going to have another lean time.

Originally Posted by Electric Vic

2) England's bowling attack is on a high, but I think it will have lost its edge a bit by the time the test series starts, and injuries may take their toll. Local conditions won't give us an advantage because the kiwis have chosen their team with them in mind as well. Last time the kiwis were in England I think we were guilty of overrating our batting line up and their bowlers.

I don't agree with this either. Yes England's bowling is their strong area, but I don't think they will have lost their edge as you say - all the bowling they've done in the West Indies will have improved their capabilities - not diminished them. Bowlers get better with experience and practice - they've had plenty of that recently. In my mind they will bowl a lot better if anything, as long as they get some reasonable rest when they get back from the Carribbean. The English seamers wickets really suit our style of bowling, I think the Kiwi's will struggle to get to grips with our bowling attack, which is part of the reason I think we should play 4 specialist seamers + Freddy rather than 3 + Freddy and Giles.

Originally Posted by Electric Vic

3) John Bracewell. The man's clearly a brilliant coach. Look how Glos have fallen flat in the one-dayers so far this season.

Fletcher's every bit as good as Bracewell, I don't see why this is one of the reasons NW will win the Test Series.

Originally Posted by Electric Vic

4) The weather; I'm sure it will play a part in limiting the number of days played. My feeling is they might edge the Lords test which England usually lose.

I don't agree here either. If anything the weather will assist our bowlers not hinder them, but one game may well end up as a draw due to the weather.

All of which, is why I predict a series win for England, by how many I'm not sure. One game may end up as a draw, the Kiwis may 'pinch' one game. So the outcomes I reckon are Eng 1 NZ 1 Draw 1 or Eng 1 NZ 0 Draw 2, more likely Eng 2 NZ 1, or Eng 2 NZ 0 Draw 1. I do think England will come out on top though, but its going to be much closer than a lot of people think.

Scott

[Electric Vic]

Scott,
I'd love to feel as positive as you do about the England batting.
In the Caribbean our batting was as good as it needed to be, but not exactly imposing. In the 3rd test in SL we only made 265 when we should have got more (SL racking up 628) and our top score against the mightly BD was 326.
I'm hoping our batting this summer will be more like last summer's effort against SA (3 first innings scores of more than 400, including 604 in the Oval test) than the 1999 series against the Kiwis (highest scores of 229 in eight innings).
BTW, the first bit of my message was actually a quote from RWS. Apologies for the accidental plagiarism.

[Kirsty Harris]

Evening Ernest!

I think Bothem made himself unpopular with the ECB when he released a book entitled 'What's wrong with English Cricket and How I Intend to Make it Right' (or something like that)! Bit of an ego!!! Plus I think, as you say, he wasn't likely to fit in - too outspokn! In a way it's a shame, because he would have a lot to offer...

It's interesting what you say about Freddie...yes, he does have a big following (you can tell from when he comes out to bat!!), and I think his great fun! However, given the great year he had, I did notice that he didn't make it on the short list for Sports Personailty of the Year last year... I know it's on the Beeb, and so not a 'cricket channel', but surely the pople who sent in nominations don't only watch BBC sports? I think some motercyclist got on the shortlist, for heavens sake!!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

I think Bothem made himself unpopular with the ECB when he released a book entitled 'What's wrong with English Cricket and How I Intend to Make it Right'

It's interesting what you say about Freddie...yes, he does have a big following (you can tell from when he comes out to bat!!)

Evening Kirsty,

You are spot on Botham did make himself unpopular not just with the ECB,but with the whole cricket establishment,he critised the lot,and he was right,they were living in the dark ages,in a way slowley they did take on board a lot of what he said,obviously not as radical,as he would have liked.they would never admit he influenced them in any way,he does not care,he has made his place in the history books.

Has Freddy not been nominated at all?

Yes there is something about freddy flintoff,he has that something that pleases the crowds,i would like to bet though Kirsty,there are people waiting for him to give them the chance to stick the knife in.Like dennis Lillee said about I Botham,dont coach him,he has a natural talent,coach him and you will ruin him,same applies to Freddy I think.