Caddick

[Mark Kidger]

Originally Posted by ernest

Mark
Hard one this,one down and one to play.
No I would not bring back Caddick,I would try someone like Chapple.
Young players can soon hang their heads when things go wrong,I would be worried that Caddick would break down like Gough,or maybe I would make no changes,and then I could see what fight the team had.

If Chapple didn't get a game last season when England were desperate, should he get one now? If you want experience, you might go for Bicknell or Saggers. If you want someone younger, perhaps Kabir Ali or Mahmood.

[Ernest]

Mark
I had assumed that Mahmood was part of the team trailing one nil,if that is not the case I may well give him a go,or I might stick with Chapple

I was trying to think of Bicknells name when you mentioned caddick,bit of a poser that one.
To be honest I dont know much about Saggers,I always love to watch new players in the team.
No I will stick with Chapple he his a 100% er,and he can give the ball a good smack as well.Putting Mahmood in a team with their heads down maybe counterproductive with him being so young......

[Mark Kidger]

Hmmm. I think Saggers was the most surprised man in England to get a Test debut in Bangladesh. It's very early days in the season and with so much bad weather, current form does not mean very much, however, of the names that you mention, Saggers has made by far the best start so far with 9 wickets at just under 30. Mahmood has played just one match and has 5 cheap wickets (5 @ 16), but I suspect that he'll have to wait for the series against the Windies for his turn - possibly in an experimental side in the 4th Test. Bicknell has 5 @ 31. Chappell has 4 wickets at 38 and Caddick 4 @ 48. Nobody really making much of a case there except for Mahmood.

Interestingly, with so many unknowns - including a university player - at the top of the current wicket takers (a raft of players with 11 wickets so far this season), there are a couple of interesting names in the chasing pack, on 9 wickets: Ian Salisbury and Robin Martin-Jenkins. Now I can't imagine that Salisbury would make a comeback, but it's curious that he is getting better returns than many much better rated bowlers. Robin Martin-Jenkins is a player that seems to be on the fringes of the England side - many pundits seem to think that he could get a ODI call-up this summer and even be an outside bet for the winter tour party.

[Ernest]

Mark
I think the selectors will stick with the present team,against new Zealand at Least.rain has stopped us getting a propper look at the players who may be asked to play if there are any injuries,there will be some breakdowns no doubt.
Martin-jenkins,wher could we put him.who`s shoes could he fill,I have seen him,and I like him.
mark as tou know we have a problam finding a spinner,Giles is not the man,he has had his chance,Batty not on his own,I am going to pull a rabbit out of the hat here keedey,takes wickets I would have him in from the word go.
Not sure about saggers,I dont know much about him.
we have bowlers,we need an opening bat urgent!

[Mark Kidger]

I'd like to think that the selectors will stay with the same basic XI, though I would dearly love to see Strauss playing instead of Giles. Funnily enough though, Giles has not actually had such bad returns in the May/June series that last two years - he wasn't needed much last year, but two years ago he had a good series against Sri Lanka.

Saggers is not a pet hate of mine, but he isn't one of my favourite players either. I am very doubtful about the wisdom of him getting more Test caps when there are so many younger bowlers around. I don't rate Robin Martin-Jenkins as a potential Test player - both his batting and bowling averages are very mediocre (30.6 and 32.7 respectively) - but he looks a more likely ODI player and, significantly, his bowling in one day cricket is far more effective than in the longer game. He looks a more plausible one day all-rounder than say, McGrath, Blackwell, or Collingwood.

[Cannonball Taffy O'Jones]

So RM-J has a better set of figures than Freddie then?! Not saying he's better by any stretch, but it shows that stats aren't the be all and end all.

Caddick is not a good man to have in a dressing room. It shows how much more mature the current gang of four are for not making any comment against Caddick. They only make comments that re-inforce themselves as a unit (always mentioning Anderson too), almost as a cohort. Hoggard would have been more than entitled to have said something considering the personal nature of Caddick's outburst.

We all know people like him, the moment he opens his mouth you cringe in anticipation. It may not be intentional or purposely malicious - Nasser goes as far as saying that he is often talking thru insecurity or fishing for compliments, but in the context it isn't making him any friends. Something he seems to be dangerously lacking in.

Chapple and Bicknell would be truely backwards steps, the latter seems unable to bowl 20 overs in a day without a week off afterwards.

[Mark Kidger]

Originally Posted by Cannonball Taffy O'Jones

So RM-J has a better set of figures than Freddie then?! Not saying he's better by any stretch, but it shows that stats aren't the be all and end all.

I disagree very strongly with this statement. The stats do give a true reflection of R.M.-J.'s ability. A batting average of 30 is hardly the mark of a class batsman, it's somebody who'll bat down the order, and a bowling average of 32 is your county 3rd or 4th seamer (depending on how weak the attack is). They're the figures of a reliable county pro, but not those of a player with Test potential. A player like Trevor Bailey who, at Test level, was a fairly average all-rounder, had far superior county figures. If the stats are misleading it is possibly about Freddy...

[Ernest]

Yes I hope they stay with the winters winning 11,however to this squad I would add Strauss,Trescothick cant be carried for ever,he is really out of form,and when he returns home Mark he will have to start all over again.He should have come home with the test team for a break .I would still give him a chance in the matches against New Zealand.

We know what Giles can do by now,I would start with him,even if it is only to prop up the batting if it fails,but I would have Keedey waiting in the wings,he takes wickets for Lancs week in and week out.

[sostenurter]

[quote=Cannonball Taffy O'Jones]

Caddick is not a good man to have in a dressing room. It shows how much more mature the current gang of four are for not making any comment against Caddick. They only make comments that re-inforce themselves as a unit (always mentioning Anderson too), almost as a cohort. Hoggard would have been more than entitled to have said something considering the personal nature of Caddick's outburst.

[quote]

In an interview I read last week in the Evening Standard, Caddick also put down the achievements of the current seamers. He said of Harmison "He did well on bowler-friendly pitches, but that pitch in Antigua is what most pitches are like around the world".

I can't believe his cheek at saying this. Has he conveniently forgotten all those May greentops he took wickets on? And of course, Headingley in 2000 was completely flat, a total featherbed. But I suppose all Caddick's wickets were due to his devastating skill as a bowler, whereas everyone else takes wickets because the pitch helps them. And it is a complete lie to suggest that all pitches around the world are like that Antigua one - that pitch was an utter, utter featherbed - most pitches in the WI, NZ, England, SA and Aus offer quite a bit for the pace bowler. In fact, some sub-continent pitches offer more to the bowler than that pitch in Antigua did. And he might like to remember that he was part of the attack when Lara made his first world record, and didn't exactly cover himself with glory on the rest of that tour.

I was, and am, a big fan of Caddick the bowler, but the way he has put down Harmison smacks of sour grapes - and given the current unity of the bowling atttack at the moment, on and off the pitch, I wouldn't want to risk that by bringing back a player who has so publicly belittled their efforts.

[Whips_off_the_bails]

Caddick's worst enemy has always been his big mouth. Remember before the 1994 Carribean series he told the world he'd worked out how to get Brian Lara out?

Before the last Ashes series, I remember hearing some good advice from Ian Healey in his new role as a pundit. He said that England should adopt a softly-softly approach, not talk themselves up, and try to catch the Aussies on the hop.

The next thing I know, there's Caddick shooting his mouth off again...

In this case, it could be that he's talking himself up in order to motivate himself. Not working very well so far for Somerset, though....

I have a strange love-hate attitude toward the man. After the 1998 tour of the Carribean, I never wanted to see him in an England shirt again. But under Nasser's captaincy he prospered and put in some devastating spells of bowling. I don't think Hoggard will ever be as potent a strike force as Caddick.

But that's not to compare like with like. The bowler who most resembles Caddick as a hit-the-deck bowler extracting steep bounce from the wicket is Steve Harmison, who (much to my surprise and delight - it's nice to be wrong in your predictions sometimes) has clearly leapfrogged above Caddick in the pecking order.

So Caddick has at least four things against him: 1) he's not the man in possession, so depends on someone else failing to get in the team; 2) his lousy attitude, not in the spirit of "team England"; 3) his age; 4) for his type of bowling, he's been superseded by Harmison.

His best hope is for Simon Jones to break down or not to improve, but then there's Anderson and a few others to worry about.