Why are England so bad at setting awinning score in ODI's?

[Kirsty Harris]

[quote=R W S]There used to be a rule of thumb that you should expect a total that is double the score after 30 overs (in a 50 over match).QUOTE]

I remember that too... would that still the case though, with the 15 over rule in place? Surely now that it's 'easier' to hit boundries in the first 15 overs, the expectation can't still be the same?

[Kirsty Harris]

CantPlayCan Talk

I take your point, but the fact is England ALWAYS struggle to win when batting first, reguardless of who they play or the kind of pitch.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

at my dear old Mum's in devon!

My question it was clear England always seem to lose momentum at the halfway mark, or fall away towards the end. I just don't understand WHY this is the case.

My goodness me, I was in Devon last weekend, on the South coast. Perhaps we passed each other like ships in the night...

SHUT UP Oliver.

I agree with Richie. Too many bits and pieces cricketers. And whatever Rach or anyone else says. Collingwood IS one of those. So is Clarke. I guess Clarke has youth (six years of it) on his side, so he may learn MORE, quicker and actually turn into a reasonable pick. It's not working for him at the moment though.

I hope, desperately that the selectors are not concerned particularly about the outcome of these ODI series.
I hope that they are working eventually towards picking up major gongs for winning REAL and LARGE tournaments - like the World Cup or whatever this thing is at the end of our summer.

I hope that they really are just experimenting with some of these (what I shall I say: "fly-by-night" "joke") ermm supporting actors, and that there is a REAL team out there that Fletcher and Vaughan (I keep wanting to put "Christian" after
Fletcher) have in mind for the job. However it must not contain Butcher. For all his dashing left-handed batting, he is a woeful fielder, and an amateur rock musician...need I say more.

What is the side? Now you're talking. I wonder if (having given him the ODI's to re-establish his credentials) they will drop Read in favour of the newly ensconced Test man Geraint Jones. I wonder.
I wonder if they will leave out Harmison, or whether English pitches will be prepared for the big man.
I wonder if they will think better of Gough as the returning hero...maybe Caddick will get another shot instead?
And Pieterson at the end of the summer, you say? Ahh I wonder.

I wonder if the side might look like this: Trescothick, Vaughan, Strauss, Pieterson, Flintoff, Clarke, G. Jones, Blackwell, Caddick, Hoggard, Anderson?

I wonder. But I doubt it. Far too many bits-and-pieces players there. I'd drop another one of the bits-and-pieces (Clarke) in favour of a batsman. Not Butcher or Collingwood...actually I don't even know his name...I'd rather it were Graham Thorpe or something like that...but it isn't Butcher or Collingwood.

[Kirsty Harris]

Oliver

Yes - too many bits&pieces players could well be part of the problem! I'd like another full time bat in the team - if only it could be Thorpe....sigh!! Still, perhaps Pieterson could be the solution....

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

I dont know whether its on this thread or not, but we need a pivitol number 6, not blackwell. Collingwood would make a decent 6, I dont see him as a bowler just a bat. Read is our "finisher", the aussies had (really should have) bevan.Tells its own story really.

[Kirsty Harris]

RBLC

Yep, Collingwood seems a good choice as a number 6 - I don't really rate his bowling, but I like his attitude as a OD batsmen. I think Blackwell is a boardline case as an allrounder, but he can't bowl at the death, like he did at the weekend - it was painful to watch!!

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

Oliver

....sigh!! Still, perhaps Pieterson could be the solution....

...sigh...indeed. We can only hope that he is as good as Robin Smith. He was quite good. I used to like watching him.
And p'rhaps as a spinner, Pieterson might be a better player of that stuff. It was said that fattie Warne finished Smith's career. It would be nice to see a similar player putting Warne in his place. Dietary tablets and all.

[R W S]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

I remember that too... would that still the case though, with the 15 over rule in place? Surely now that it's 'easier' to hit boundries in the first 15 overs, the expectation can't still be the same?

There may be something in the 15 over comment.
But interstingly (to who?) the 2nd half of the innings produced more runs and I think this is usually the case - provided wickets in hand.

England where 139/3 after 25 overs in the 5th ODI and finished on 281/8
England where 126/1 after 25 overs in the 6th ODI and finished on 280/8

I guess I support the view that we don't get enough runs and our batters must do better. Insightful or what!

[Kirsty Harris]

Oliver

Robin Smith is the player that got me watching cricket in the 1st place - he was more than quite good!!! I remember his century against Austrailia in 1989....a bright spot in a terrible series...

If Pieterson is half as good as Smith was, we're in luck!

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by R W S

There may be something in the 15 over comment.
But interstingly (to who?)

Intersting to me, RWS!!!

To get to the bottom of it, perhaps we need to look at a larger sample?!!

As you say, our batsmen getting more runs would certainly be of benefit to the cause!!!