Blair says don't tour

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Occasional Fan

We seem to have gone a bit off piste here, don't we?

OF

Yeah I love off-piste skiiing - lots of lovely deep powder!

But yes, we've gone off at a tangent a little, but I think there is still some relevance here, albeit perhaps not suitable for this thread.

The BBC used to Broadcast Cricket, but then C4 took it away, then Sky. The BBC couldnt even get TMS coverage of the last WIndies tour. One really does have to ask oneself if the BBC is still relevant in this day and age, when there are so many other viable alternatives. I liken the BBC to a fallen wildebeest, with lions taking bite sized chunks out of its carcass leaving the remnants to the hyena's. Thats pretty much whats happening to the BBC, the big broadcasting companies like Sky are cherry picking what they want - leaving the BBC with the scraps - because they can't compete. Is there any point in the BBC's existence if they cannot compete in the market place they're meant to be broadcasting in ?

Scott

[Occasional Fan]

Sorry, Scott: not a debate I want to engage in, thanks.

[SSA.]

Originally Posted by ernest

Yes SSA
The British goverment should do the same,they should (TELL) the ICC that England will not be touring Zimbabwe,but they also have to prepared to back the ECB in all ways,not hust moral support,but financial as well.

Absolutely.

If the Government prohibits the Team from touring I dont know on what grounds ICC can fine ECB. But if there is some way they still manage to impose a fine the government has to stand by ECB financially. Sports is not a government run institution in this country (thank God !) but the cricket team is representing England, not individuals or the ECB.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by SSA.

If the Government prohibits the Team from touring I dont know on what grounds ICC can fine ECB.

SSA

The government has no powers over the ICC,it could fine and impose sanctions on the ECB,if England did not tour.

We can do one of two things,in my eyes,the ECB should leave it in the governments hands to say England is not touring Zimbabwe for political,and seurity reasons,and they should tell the ICC they want to be treated in the same way as India and Pakistan,who refuse to play each other whenever they wish.

And if all else fails,dont pay any fines,withdraw from the ICC,any bets no other country will not follow.

We cant give in on this one,after all Mr Magabe hates the British.and all we stand for,why should he want to play us?to put the ECB in this predicument and no other reason.

Ernest

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by ernest

The government has no powers over the ICC,it could fine and impose sanctions on the ECB,if England did not tour.

Ernest

Thats not strictly true. The ICC has said the only way it would not take sanctions against England for not touring is if the government specifically instructed the ECB not to tour. As then it ceases to be an ECB decision but a government/political orientated one.

Scott

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Occasional Fan

Sorry, Scott: not a debate I want to engage in, thanks.

OF

That's fine. It just happens to be personal hobby horse of mine and a bit like a red rag to a bull whenever the BBC and the Licence Fee are mentioned.

Scott

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Ernest

Thats not strictly true. The ICC has said the only way it would not take sanctions against England for not touring is if the government specifically instructed the ECB not to tour. As then it ceases to be an ECB decision but a government/political orientated one.

Scott

Hi Scott

My point was the government has no durisdiction over the ICC,if the ICC has said sanctions would not apply if the government instructed the ECB not to tour,because of political reasons,it is only a concession on their part.

The government has said it has not the powers to stop the team from touring Zimbabwe,their possition was only a guidline,and would not be responsible for any financial sanctions imposed on the ECB by the ICC,in other words a cop out by the government.

The tour cant possibly go ahead,on one ground alone for me,the players and fans would not be safe,Mr Magabe has whipped up that much hatred against the British.

The only course of action the ECB can take,if the government still will not help,is to unillatarily call the tour of themselves,and face the consiquences,and refuse to pay any fines,or compensation.

Call Mr Blairs Bluff,i doubt if he would dare see the England cricket team go under.

Ernest

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by ernest

My point was the government has no durisdiction over the ICC,if the ICC has said sanctions would not apply if the government instructed the ECB not to tour,because of political reasons,it is only a concession on their part.

Ernest

It's not a concession, it's something they've always maintained. That's why the ICC didn't impose sanctions on India and Pakistan when they refused to play each other - it was a government decision.

Originally Posted by ernest

The government has said it has not the powers to stop the team from touring Zimbabwe,their possition was only a guidline,and would not be responsible for any financial sanctions imposed on the ECB by the ICC,in other words a cop out by the government.

The government does have the powers to stop the English Cricket Team Touring, if it chooses to use them, but clearly it does not want to interfere. For some strange reason this government does not want to use its power to intervene in this situation - I don't understand that any more than you do. The Commonwealth Institute saw fit to expel Zimbabwe from its membership, but this government doesn't see anything wrong with contributing to the Zimbabwe economy via one of our national sides touring there? Beggars belief really, in my mind this is just one more nail in Tony Blair's coffin.

Originally Posted by ernest

The only course of action the ECB can take,if the government still will not help,is to unillatarily call the tour of themselves,and face the consiquences,and refuse to pay any fines,or compensation.t

Well I must agree on this point, as that's pretty much what I beleive should happen. The ECB need do one of three things now. 1/ Start exerting some extreme pressure on the ICC to suspend Zimbabwe for the farce currently going on in the Test against Sri Lanka; The team Zimbabwe is currently fielding does not merit Test Status and should be suspended. 2/ Stick two fingers up to the ICC and categorically state that England refuse to tour Zimbabe on the grounds that Zimbabwe are not currently a strong enough Test Side to warrant Test Status; 3/ Resign their membership from the ICC on the basis that they consider the ICC policies to be fatally flawed and refuse to re-join until fairer policies are introduced.

Scott

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

The government does have the powers to stop the English Cricket Team Touring, if it chooses to use them, but clearly it does not want to interfere. For some strange reason this government does not want to use its power to intervene in this situation - I don't understand that any more than you do. The Commonwealth Institute saw fit to expel Zimbabwe from its membership, but this government doesn't see anything wrong with contributing to the Zimbabwe economy via one of our national sides touring there? Beggars belief really, in my mind this is just one more nail in Tony Blair's coffin.

Scott - I know you have some strong opinions on this, but I think here you have a couple of things wrong in fact. I don't think the Government does have the power to ban the tour. I'm prepared to be corrected: what law are you referring to? Secondly, Zimbabwe withdrew from the Commonwealth: it was not expelled. The Commonwealth certainly has the power to suspend or expel member states, and it has done so a few times in the past, but not in the case of Zimbabwe's present absence.

[Ernest]

"The government does have the powers to stop the English Cricket Team Touring, if it chooses to use them, but clearly it does not want to interfere. For some strange reason this government does not want to use its power to intervene in this situation"

Scott,
Interesting post,

What is going on,if the government has the power to stop the Enland tour to Zimbabwe(in law)why all the fuss,why has the minister for sport,or whoever is resposible,(jack Straw has made it clear he is not getting the FO involved)(and if I am not mistaken,I saw on ceefax were he said the ECB might face possible fines,and sanctions )take the matter up with the ICC and say England are not going for political reasons,and if the ICC respect that,the matter will be closed.

I have taken on board what tou have said Scott,over the government being able to block the England tour.

I dont agree the ECB should put pressure on the ICC,because it will get them nowere.they shoud instead be putting pressure on Mr Blair,and this rotten government,to intervene as per the law allows.

Failing this the ECB will have to put two fingers up at the ICC,and tell them to do their worst.

I cant see the indevidual countries see England excluded from inernational cricket.