Geraint Jones smacks a ton off the Kiwi's

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Afternoon Ernest

Can't see Key being recalled - I think he's had his time. I was reading an interesting article on the BBC site this morning about Rob Key and that will give you the answer.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...nd/3714673.stm

Scott

Hi Scott,

Some very ineresting links of that page,England in New Zealand,lot of flops there with players still in the England team,its history though,different captain different mood,I dont think Key will be recalled,Like I was saying to kirsty earlier,I wonder Scott,how some of the England rejects eg smith,Key,Hick and Crawley and many more would have played well,if vaughan had been captain when they where playing

Did you see the form of Anderson and Keedy this week,between them they took 19 out of the 20 wickets,the ball was swinging visiously,but Anderson handled it with conrol,feel a bit sorry for Read,it's not his year.

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

However, the Read/Jones debate will linger for a long time - if Jones doesn't get off to a good start in the test series with the bat, then HIS place could be under threat from Read. In this situation, competition ISN'T really healthy, because it is preventing consistancy. That's why I hope Jones will be given a good run in the side - if he doesn't get a big score v NZ in the test series, we must persisit with him a while.

Kirsty

But you can see what's in Vaughan and Fletcher's mind can't you? By bringing in a Keeper who can bat (who in fairness is pretty close behind Read with the gloves) it allows them options elsewhere - for example that thorny old problem of Giles. (oops your favourite!) As I've said elsewhere, Giles is played for 3 reasons 1/ As the spin option (albeit mostly used in defensive mode) 2/ A good lower order bat who's good for knocking off 30 odd runs with the tail 3/ As a bet hedger, not sure if the pitch suits spin, if it does use him to dry up runs, if it doesnt he'll make some runs with the bat.

With Jones making runs at No. 7 or 8, it affords the possiblity of playing a specialist spinner (who can't bat) but who can take wickets when the track is turning.

It's no coincidence in my mind that the spinners England persist with can also make runs with the bat - Giles, Batty and Blackwell, but aren't wickets takers with the ball.

I do understand and see the point of many of the people on here who argue that Giles isn't devastating with the ball, but can make useful runs, so if the wicket doesnt suit spin - just bring in another specialist bat. In my mind thats not what the England selectors or Fletcher will do. Strengthening the batting at the expense of the bowling is not the answer. Hence the introduction of Geriant Jones - he's in to strengthen the lower order batting, hopefully to allow a specialist spinner to be played that isnt expected to make any runs - but is there purely as an attacking spinner - to take wickets.

The places of the WK and the spinner are linked in my mind.

I think Jones will get a decent run in the side and I also think he'll do well with the bat - he's got a sound technique and if anything his main weakness is that he's too 'attacking' - that may well be his downfall, but hopefully playing at this level he will mature, like Flintoff, with his batting and learn how to construct an innings.

What I'd like to see Read do now is go away and work on his batting. I'd like to see Read push for his place again, not by his WK skills - we know he's excellent in that area, but by making runs in County Cricket, consistent runs and big scores. Thats the only way in my mind, he'll get his place back. If Read can get his batting up to the same level as Jones, he will get his place back - but he's got a lot to do.

Scott

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by ernest

Did you see the form of Anderson and Keedy this week,between them they took 19 out of the 20 wickets,the ball was swinging visiously,but Anderson handled it with conrol,feel a bit sorry for Read,it's not his year.

Ernest

Theres no doubt theres an aura of fairness now about Team Selections, in many ways its gone the other way - they're reluctant to make changes!

I did see Anderson is doing well, in fact I think it will earn him a Test recall in place of Jones, who's struggling a little at the moment. See my other post to Kirsty on some of the other issues regarding Read/Jones and the Giles spinner slot.

Scott

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Ernest

Theres no doubt theres an aura of fairness now about Team Selections, in many ways its gone the other way - they're reluctant to make changes!

I did see Anderson is doing well, in fact I think it will earn him a Test recall in place of Jones, who's struggling a little at the moment.

Scott

Scott

I did read that post to Kirsty,and found your observations regarding Giles interesting,I agree,I have done for a while,putting Giles in because he can bat a bit,and he can hang around a bit,to me smacks of a bit of self doubt amoungst the selectors,putting him in the team in case the batsmen dont do to well.

I think they should put a spinner in who can spin the ball,thats how teams win matches using a spinner,Warne good eg.

Giles comes into his own on the sub continent where he can just bowl accurate,and wait for the batsmen to make mistakes,look at his form last visit to India brilliant.

The selectors are handling Jones and Read all wrong,By the timeing of when they dropped Read,it must have busted Reads confidence,but worse than that,even more so after his exellent innings today,a heck of a lot is expecked of him in the batting department,and at the end of the day,he is a wicketkeeper first,not a batsman

Scott about the selectors being reluctent to make changes,they where not reluctant to drop read at a very strange time,or did you mean the full selection team in general.

Ernest

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Kirsty

But you can see what's in Vaughan and Fletcher's mind can't you? By bringing in a Keeper who can bat (who in fairness is pretty close behind Read with the gloves) it allows them options elsewhere - for example that thorny old problem of Giles. (oops your favourite!) As I've said elsewhere, Giles is played for 3 reasons 1/ As the spin option (albeit mostly used in defensive mode) 2/ A good lower order bat who's good for knocking off 30 odd runs with the tail 3/ As a bet hedger, not sure if the pitch suits spin, if it does use him to dry up runs, if it doesnt he'll make some runs with the bat.

With Jones making runs at No. 7 or 8, it affords the possiblity of playing a specialist spinner (who can't bat) but who can take wickets when the track is turning.

It's no coincidence in my mind that the spinners England persist with can also make runs with the bat - Giles, Batty and Blackwell, but aren't wickets takers with the ball.

I do understand and see the point of many of the people on here who argue that Giles isn't devastating with the ball, but can make useful runs, so if the wicket doesnt suit spin - just bring in another specialist bat. In my mind thats not what the England selectors or Fletcher will do. Strengthening the batting at the expense of the bowling is not the answer. Hence the introduction of Geriant Jones - he's in to strengthen the lower order batting, hopefully to allow a specialist spinner to be played that isnt expected to make any runs - but is there purely as an attacking spinner - to take wickets.

The places of the WK and the spinner are linked in my mind.

I think Jones will get a decent run in the side and I also think he'll do well with the bat - he's got a sound technique and if anything his main weakness is that he's too 'attacking' - that may well be his downfall, but hopefully playing at this level he will mature, like Flintoff, with his batting and learn how to construct an innings.

What I'd like to see Read do now is go away and work on his batting. I'd like to see Read push for his place again, not by his WK skills - we know he's excellent in that area, but by making runs in County Cricket, consistent runs and big scores. Thats the only way in my mind, he'll get his place back. If Read can get his batting up to the same level as Jones, he will get his place back - but he's got a lot to do.

Scott

Yep - I totally get what your saying. I agree to some extent - it would be useful to have more flexiability in selection (as long as they don't jus go and pick another batsmen, which IMO is a waste of time). I like the idea of having an extra bowler for certain mathes. And as much as I will stick up for Giles, I don't think he should be an automatic choice for every game...

As for Read, yes it would serve him well to work on his batting....I don't think his a bad batsmen anyway, but needs to work on building on good starts...

[sostenurter]

Jones not only scored a century, but he also stumped the dangerman of NZ's second innings, Chris Cairns. I don't know if it was a regulation stumping or whatever, but surely it's just further proof that he really is good with the gloves, not just a batsman converted into a keeper.

[darren cook]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Kirsty

This is exactly why he did replace Read. Without wishing to reopen that 'can of worms' Read had plenty of chances to show what he could do with the bat for England - and never shone, never really looked like getting a decent score. You have to be able score runs at County level, and Read never did - I think he's got one First Class Century to his name.

Jones however has scored runs at County level, and proved again he can score runs against a decent bowling attack too, as you say it bodes well - I just hope he can do it at Test Level.

Scott

And I hope he can Keep to a world class standard that Read does .

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by darren cook

And I hope he can Keep to a world class standard that Read does .

darren

Well if his performance in the last Test in the Carribbean is anything to go by - he will.

Scott

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

darren

Well if his performance in the last Test in the Carribbean is anything to go by - he will.

Scott

Sorry Scott, but the last Test in St John's proved nothing with regards to keeping. He barely had anything to do, and on the first day looked quite untidy. The ball rarely deviated and keeping on that surface even Boucher would have looked at home.

Jones is the superior batsman, by a fair way. As for those in the know who supported his case even they admit he has a way to go to be up with Read interms of what he's REALLY picked to do. For England's sake I hope he learns it well, then we will have a real star.

[Whips_off_the_bails]

It's really good that these counties v tourists games are actually meaningful this time round. Good to see both Worcestershire and Kent field strong sides.

I don't think you can say that Robert Key is finished as a test player. He was in terrible form last year, and shouldn't be judged on that alone. I think a century in each innings against international opposition has to have moved him up the pecking order.