Geraint Jones smacks a ton off the Kiwi's

[Electric Vic]

Originally Posted by Hampshire Guy

1. he ain't going to take no wickets and 2. he can't even keep it tight at the moment. In the West Indies he must have bowled about 15 overs at most?? I think the only time his batting is usefull is when he's taking wickets, otherwise you can just stick in someone else who'll score heavier.

I wouldn't mind seeing Collingwood in at Lords instead of Giles, but I don't expect it to happen.

This is only a fairly recent phenomenon, but the England management seem to be committed to the idea of always picking a spinner. All those people who bemoan the dearth of English spinners should take heart from this policy - Gilo may not be your preferred choice, but he's the one with a central contract right now (isn't he? - can't be a***d to check). He had a series to forget (with the ball) against Windies - but he didn't have many overs to bowl and was up against batsmen who were determined to hit him out of the attack.

He's also one of these players who is better than his most recent form suggests. As Kirsty pointed out, Giles had an excellent series against Sri Lanka. Over his career, his average may leave a lot to be desired but his economy rate is passable (3 an over), and he gets big wickets (Gibbs and Kirsten at the Oval last summer).

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Electric Vic

I wouldn't mind seeing Collingwood in at Lords instead of Giles, but I don't expect it to happen.
He's also one of these players who is better than his most recent form suggests. As Kirsty pointed out, Giles had an excellent series against Sri Lanka. Over his career, his average may leave a lot to be desired but his economy rate is passable (3 an over), and he gets big wickets (Gibbs and Kirsten at the Oval last summer).

Electric Vic
I think if the weather stays hot and dry Giles will play..

Nice to hear a few kind words said about Giles for change . We all know Giles aint no Warne, but he isn't half as bad as some people seem to think - what you said about him picking up key wickets at times is a good point, and one that hadn't occured to me...I'll have to remember that one!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Electric Vic

I wouldn't mind seeing Collingwood in at Lords instead of Giles, but I don't expect it to happen.

This is only a fairly recent phenomenon, but the England management seem to be committed to the idea of always picking a spinner.

They have picked Giles because he can bat a bit,the same reason they chose Jones instead of Read,this shows the selection board picks a team that does not show a lot of confedence in the England top batting order,cenral contracts would not come into it ,I dont think so long as players were paid weather they played or not.

Giles did well in our last tour of India and Shri Lanka,he only seems able to bowl on the subcontinent pitches,and the he bowls defencivly.

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by ernest

They have picked Giles because he can bat a bit,the same reason they chose Jones instead of Read,this shows the selection board picks a team that does not show a lot of confedence in the England top batting order,

Ernest

I think you're being a little too simplistic here. Fletcher does want a long batting line up, but selecting players that will give him that long batting line in no ways suggests they have 'no confidence' in the top order. I'm sure you would be the first to agree that when two things are almost equal - they will always go with the better batsman - Jones/Read is an excellent example of this likewise the Giles situation. England do not have that many good spinners, so are you surprised they go with the one who is useful with the bat?

I've said before on here - England hedge their bets with Giles. The bowling format of 1 x Allrounder seamer, 3 x specialist seamers, 1 x spinner is an established format that England use and most modern Test sides also use. It gets adjusted now and again according to the pitch, but it's clear England want to stick with this tried and tested format. The question isn't so much of whether to play a spinner, its more who it should be. Giles seems to be the favourite, and in my mind thats as much to do with his ability with the bat as it is with the ball. All sides are a 'balance' a mixture of qualities - the sum of whose parts is greater than the individuals. Read was unbalancing the side due to his lack of contribution with the bat, hence the tendency to perservere with Giles, even though there are a few spinners around now, who it could be argued would be a better spin option than Giles.

There was no way they were going to do anything about Giles while Read was in the side. Now they have (or think they have) solved the keeper batting problem, they my well turn their attention to the spinner slot and safe in the knowledge they have a stronger bat at No 7, and could play a non-batter at No.8.

Personally I think (or have been lead to beleive) that Kevin Pieterson could well be the future Giles replacement. I don't know much about Pieterson, apart from the understanding that he's useful with the bat, but I don't know much about his spinning ability. Pieterson coming in at No.8 seems a pretty strong batting line up to me.

Scott

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Ernest

Personally I think (or have been lead to beleive) that Kevin Pieterson could well be the future Giles replacement. I don't know much about Pieterson, apart from the understanding that he's useful with the bat, but I don't know much about his spinning ability. Pieterson coming in at No.8 seems a pretty strong batting line up to me.

Scott

Afternoon Scott,

Pietersen will never be the replacement for Giles. As much as is off-spin is useful he will always be a batsman who bowls a little. If he can develop into a Darren Lehmann, Carl Hooper or Chris Gayle we will be very fortunate.

Also, batting him at eight would be a complete waste of time. I'll agree that Geraint Jones is a better batsman than Chris Read but he's nowhere near as good as Pietersen who will get into the team as a batsman alone. Pietersen should bat either four or five, give him plenty of chance to score those double hundreds he so enjoys. Batting at eight that would never happen!

We still need to search for a proper full-time spin bowler. Surely Ferley, Tredwell, Dawson, ought to be getting a look in??

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

We still need to search for a proper full-time spin bowler. Surely Ferley, Tredwell, Dawson, ought to be getting a look in??

Afternoon Notts

Thanks for your information about Pieterson, as I said, I really don't know much about this guy at all. As you say he seems a middle order batsman with some useful spin, certainly something England could well do with - no doubt about it.

Once the England batting line up is strong enough, I think you may well see a 'good' specialist spinner being tried, without having to worry about his batting ability. I'm also not really up on spinners, but from watching Sky Sports, Keedy seems the preferred option at the moment by some of the Commentators.

Scott

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Scott



I've said before on here - England hedge their bets with Giles The question isn't so much of whether to play a spinner, its more who it should be. Giles seems to be the favourite, and in my mind thats as much to do with his ability with the bat as it is with the ball.

There was no way they were going to do anything about Giles while Read was in the side. Now they have (or think they have) solved the keeper batting problem, they my well turn their attention to the spinner slot and safe in the knowledge they have a stronger bat at No 7, and could play a non-batter at No.8.

Personally I think (or have been lead to beleive) that Kevin Pieterson could well be the future Giles replacement. I don't know much about Pieterson, apart from the understanding that he's useful with the bat.

We are not miles apart on this one Scott,I agree they would not get rid of Giles,if Read was playing,not in modern cricket anyway.Alan Knott was a goog eg of a genuin wicketkeeper who was good with the bat,he was a proper keeper allrounder,he just was the best keeper anyway,I am sorry for Read the way they dumped him,I mean if you are a keeper dumped for his batting,least said about that,

So if jones comes off,and I hope he does,then they can do something about the spinning department,neither Giles nor Batty,covered themselves with glory in the Windies,infact most of the time the were poor.

I think this is the only part we really disagree on,I would not really wish to se Peterson come in for Giles,only as a last resort.
You have picked him on the understanding ,that he may be usefull with the bat,the Giles reasoning again.

I regard a specialist spinner,as a bowler,just the same as a pace bowler,to contain,or to get wickets,not as an all rounder.if he can bat,then that is a (bonus).their bowling talents come first.

I will put a name forward a spinner who gets wickets,He and Anderson took 19 out of the 20 worstershire wickets to fall last week.the conditions by the way were favourable to swing bowlers.

I know I am a lancastrian,but perhaps some one else knows of a wicket taking spinner.

ps Giles is a bit of an enigma,look at ther difference when he is bowling on the sub continent,a good spinner ie warne will bowl anywere.

Ernest.

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by ernest

Giles is a bit of an enigma,look at ther difference when he is bowling on the sub continent,a good spinner ie warne will bowl anywere.

Ernest

Giles isn't an enigma at all. When the pitch will suit spin, he'll do ok, as it does in the Asian countries. Warne is a world class bowler and spins the ball a lot with a lot of variation, so he'll pose problems pretty much wherever he bowls.

The simple fact is - England just do not produce world class spin bowlers - so we have to hedge our bets a bit and bowl a spinner who can bat a bit as well. Whether England's batting can get consistent and good enough to play the best spin option we've got remains to be seen.

Scott

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Ernest

Giles isn't an enigma at all. When the pitch will suit spin, he'll do ok, as it does in the Asian countries. Warne is a world class bowler and spins the ball a lot with a lot of variation, so he'll pose problems pretty much wherever he bowls.

The simple fact is - England just do not produce world class spin bowlers - so we have to hedge our bets a bit and bowl a spinner who can bat a bit as well. Whether England's batting can get consistent and good enough to play the best spin option we've got remains to be seen.

Scott

Scott

This post says it all,Giles can only play when the pitch will take spin,trouble is,if the pitch is not taking spin he goes for a lot,because he sends at least one bad ball down an over.

Dont know if you ever saw D Underwood play,left arm same as Giles,not a great spinner of the ball,but the difference between Underwood and Giles was,Underwood was accurate,gave nothing away,so he was an automatic choice in the team,he could dry runs up at one end,and give the pace bowlers a chance at the other end.

You say warne is a world class bowler who can spin the ball on any surface,I will agree with that,and he is accurate,no doubt about that.

So if we cant produce world class spinners like Warne,who can spin big on any surface,why cant we at least find a slow bowler who is as accurate,as underwood was,thats not asking to much.

When there is no spin,neither giles nor Batty,are accurate enough to have a place in the England team.

I dont agree with what you are saying we have to hedge our bets a bit,and play a spinner who can bat a bit,scott Giles is not the best batter in the world,at times he can get a few,and hold his end up,but being that he gives more runs away by inaccurate bowling,by your logic we may as well play an extra batsman,who can bowl a bit.

You say,and I agree our batting is not that consistant,but we replaced Read with Jones,to shore up the lower middle order,that should give us more bowling options.

Ernest

[sostenurter]

I don't think we have much of a chance of getting a plyer like Warne, he is a one-off. Nor are we going to produce spinners in teh way the sub-continent sides do, because there players are growing up with spin-friendy pitches and an average side will feature two or more specialist spinners. Our aim has to be to get someone like Vettori or Boje, decent spinners who can perform on different types of pitches.