Vaughan Carried Off On Stretcher..

[Whips_off_the_bails]

I don't think I have quite forgiven Trescothick for coming off for bad light at Lords last year when he and Butcher had the South African bowling on its knees. I liked the aggressive flair Vaughan was starting to show in the Carribean, and wouldn't like to go back to our traditional English timidity/overcaution.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by sostenurter

Hey, I'm not heartless! I feel really bad for Vaughan - the injury sounds horrible! Just being pragmatic about wondering who will replace him.

I too think it'll be a kick in the teeth if Tres doesn't captain the side. I think Tres was treated pretty harshly in not getting the captaincy in the first place. He was vice-captain under Nasser, he was clearly being groomed for the role, and Vaughan had a good batting season and overtook him. Fine if you think that the captaincy should go to the best batsman - Vaughan is obviously the best batsman - but not if you think that the captaincy should go to someone who has been prepared for it and who has some idea of what is to come. The other ridiculous thing is that Vaughan was first of all given the ODI captaincy, when his place in the ODI side wasn't certain, and he'd never shown much aptitude for it. So effectively he was given the ODI captaincy on the basis of being a England's best test batsman. Ridiculous.


I don't think its surprising that Vaughan's batting has suffered - the captaincy was thrown on him as a bolt from the blue. In the circumstances, I think he's coped very well. Don't get me wrong, I think that he looks like being an excellent captain, and I think his batting form will return (hopefully this series) I just think the process of awarding him the captaincy was pretty slapdash.

I pretty much agree with you on this one - it was unfair to not give the captincy to a guy who had been vice-captin for some time in favour of the batsmen who happened to be flavour of the month.

That said, Vaughan has done a good job as captin, even though it has reduced his impact as a batsmen (so far - it could still change, if he's o.k - fingers crossed!). I do think it has been more luck than judgement that Vaughan has been a good captin, however - it was more a PA exercise by the ECB to have Vaughan Captin, IMO.

I also belive we should let the best players focus on their games, that is the way to get the best out of them...

The problem is that there is clearly a lack of trust in Tres as a Captin - other players have been appointed temporary captin's ahead of Tres while he has been vice-captin. What I don't get is if they don't see him as captincy material why make him vice-captin? Strange...

By the way, my comment re: 'heartless' was only tounge in cheek, you know!

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Whips_off_the_bails

I don't think I have quite forgiven Trescothick for coming off for bad light at Lords last year when he and Butcher had the South African bowling on its knees. I liked the aggressive flair Vaughan was starting to show in the Carribean, and wouldn't like to go back to our traditional English timidity/overcaution.

Clive

Aboslutely.

England need to get with it and be like the Australians - ruthless and get into a winning mentality. I've felt they've lacked this for a while now, but saw glimpses of it in the Carribbean as you say.

Scott

[Whips_off_the_bails]

Originally Posted by sostenurter

I too think it'll be a kick in the teeth if Tres doesn't captain the side. I think Tres was treated pretty harshly in not getting the captaincy in the first place. He was vice-captain under Nasser, he was clearly being groomed for the role, and Vaughan had a good batting season and overtook him.

But look at it in practical rather than sentimental terms. Tres had had a terrible tour of Australia. He'd failed in the first innings at Edgbaston, and picked up an injury in the second innings (but made a fighting unbeaten 50), and was actually doubtful for the back-to-back test match following just a few days later. Whereas Vaughan was fit and had just scored a big hundred. Who do you give the captaincy to in those circumstances? Your answer could be Mark Butcher, but surely not Marcus Trescothick.

[Scott-Wozniak]

From looking at the BBC website and listening to a recording of Aggers, it does look like the favoured options will be Tresco to Captain and Strauss to come in and open - he has been called up for batting cover.

The main reason being not to disturb Butcher at No.3, which bringing in Collingwood may do, but then he may still play if they leave out Giles.

Scott

[high_on_linseed]

Trescothick will captain, no doubt. And I think Andy Strauss will be bought in as a specialist opener. Im not really into the idea that batting orders make all that much of a difference, but Butcher has been so consistent at three, that I think it would be a bit needless to move him.

Strauss is in good form, and should definitely be ahead of Key in the pecking order. Though if Key (and Afzaal) prove they can continue to consistently make runs this summer, either one should move into contention for a middle-order.

The problem with Strauss opening, apart from never having played a test match, is that youll have two left handers, rather than a rightie/leftie combo opening up that teams tend to favour these days. Again that might not be that big a deal. Obviously, losing Vaughan IS that big a deal, but we'll have to cope as best we can.

One guy on the beeb boards, even before Vaughan was injured, suggested using Nasser Hussain as an opener. I thought this was not a bad idea at all. His game seems more suited for that role these days, and he would be a good foil for Trescothick. Plus, he is right-handed, and he does open for Essex. However, I guess that would be too radical a move (you never know), and it would leave three lefties in the middle order if they brought in Strauss as a middle-order batsman.

Whatever happens, Im still hoping they dont play Giles, and this is coming from a diehard bears fan.

So my team would be:

Tres (*), Strauss, Butcher, Hussain, Thorpe, Collingwood, Flintoff, G Jones, S Jones, Hoggard, Harmison

Best of British!

[Tom Partis]

if key was to be brought into the lineup, i'd like to see him open with tres as he is used to. there doesn't seem much point in opening with butch, even though he does open, because he is now accustomed to batting at 3 and key is not. so if key was brought in, my lineup would be:

Tres, Key, Butch, Hussain, Thorpe, Flintoff, Jones, Giles, Anderson, Hoggard, Harmison

however, i would rather see the team above, with Strauss in for Key

but i think the most likely team is:

Tres, Butch, Hussain, Thorpe, Collingwood, Flintoff, Jones, Giles, Anderson, Hoggard, Harmison

the only advantage i see with this lineup is that Thorpe comes in at 4 where i think he bats best.

[kriss]

-
Well as Scott Wozniak said, Jonathan Agnew’s opinion is that they will bring in Strauss and Trescothick is likely to captain.

I really don’t want to be negative at the start of a series especially after being very confident about our chances at the weekend. But…. I have no faith in Tresco’s ability to be a Test match captain. I’ve never seen him as the person capable of doing the job. Fletcher knows the man so he’s seen qualities I have not but again I just would not pick him to captain this match.

Also I’m not in favour of picking Strauss a player regarded by some, but who would the Kiwis rather see a left hander in his first test or Robert Key the man who just hit consecutive centuries against them.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Tom Partis

but i think the most likely team is:

Tres, Butch, Hussain, Thorpe, Collingwood, Flintoff, Jones, Giles, Anderson, Hoggard, Harmison

I agree that is the most likely, however, I would prefer if they replace like for like and brought Strauss in. I think it may be a great opportunity for him to make a case.

Captaincy options - Tresco's most likely, as I don't see them going back to Hussain, I can't see them opting for Thorpe or Butcher, and I think Flintoff (who skippered once in the Caribbean) needs to concentrate on bowling and batting, Captaincy may bee too much of a distraction.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

From looking at the BBC website and listening to a recording of Aggers, it does look like the favoured options will be Tresco to Captain and Strauss to come in and open - he has been called up for batting cover.
Scott

Hmmm, so perhaps Strauss will get his chance after all - it could be the one good thing to come out of Vaughan's misfortune if it is the case..