Noooooooooooooooooo

[sostenurter]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

sostenurter

Yes I know what you're saying, but in my mind the damage has been done, it's damage limitation now - Cairns is yet to come in and he can take any attack apart. This is the big problem with this Kiwi side - their batting is incredibly long and England need to be on the top of their bowling game to keep this first innings total to something manageable. What always worries me is our batting is so inconsistent - will they even get to the Kiwi's first innings score?



Scott

I see what you're saying, but look back to the first day of the last Test vs. SA. SA finished that day in a much more dominant position than NZ are today. Pretty much everyone (myself included) was agreed that England would be able to draw the match, but couldn't possibly win it. Bear in mind also that the SA side bats nearly as low as this Kiwi side - about 8 members of their side have Test 100s as well. But we came out on the second day and took 6 or 7 quick cheap wickets. From that point on, we were always on top of the match.

Of course Cairns CAN take any attack apart - and it's true he's been in good form - but IF our bowlers improve (I know it's a big IF, but we also know that they can bowl miles better than they did today) we could easily dismiss the Kiwis for a reasonable score.

The inconsistent batting is a worry. Let's hope Strauss has a good debut and Jones shows us why he's picked ahead of Read!

[Whips_off_the_bails]

When you think of the amount of work Flintoff put in over the winter, in Tests and one-days, I am relieved he wasn't overbowled today. Time for Hoggard to raise his game, I think. Jones justified his selection ahead of Anderson. Giles did not justify his selection ahead of Collingwood (or even Batty, for that matter).

England were lucky to get that bonus wicket in the last session. It's hard on the Kiwis, because it was a bad decision, but it's put us right back in the game. At least it won't be as boring now that Richardson's out (I know he did his job).

[Victor Frankenstein]

Going to go against everyone and say that i thought richardsons innings was excellent, a proper test match innings for once and i thought it was criminal that he was given out only 7 away from a very well deserved century.

Overall i didn't think we bowled that badly, but as usual with england bowlers we let the pressure off at just the wrong times and when we get it back all it does is slow the scoring instead of turning the screw. The flintoff/jones wicket of fleming was a perfect example of proper test match bowling, why do we never seem to learn from this obvious examples. It's not like they even have the excuse, like we do against people like gilchrist, that the batsmen never let the bowlers settle, as they didn't exactly go all out on the attack, astle and oram only hit bad balls they didn't take anything good on.

It's not all over, if we bowl well today there's no real reason why we can't get them out for less than 400 which will be better than nothing. I'm not convinced this is such a good pitch, there were a lot of balls that were dipping but because they were a foot outside off stump it didn't matter, the NZ bowlers are good at average line and length bowling so if this uneven bounce continues they'll make it look like a totally different pitch when england bat.

[Goatman]

I diddn't see the play yesterday (I was playing myself. We lost by the way - and just to make it worse I seem to be having the same sort of early season rhythm problems plaguing ENGs new-ballers ), so I have a few questions. If the pitch is a belter, and ENG bowled like Boycott's mum how come NZ only made 284? I diddn't see it but 284-5 is not such a great score to make me think that ENG are out of it, or NZ will go on to make 500 - they have to nearly double thier score for that. NZ have only one proper batsmen to come (Carins) - McCullum is a budget Gilchrist, who is as likely to get out quick as he is to score runs, and Vettori is a traditional Giles-like lower order blocker. There's no reason at all NZ can't be bundled out for 350 here, and no reason why ENG can't equal that. So, was the bowling really "poor" or just not quite good enough to put ENG in the driving seat? 'cos that makes a difference.

Hoggard is 1/4 of the bowler he can be when it isn't swinging. He either needs to get Pollock-like perfect pitch, or develop a couple of nasty tricks - slower balls and the like - to give himself something to fall back on. As it is though, he will blow hot and cold with the weather - so don't write him off on one performance. The next day with the wind in the right direction and a bit of grey in the sky, he'll come back and bite you on the ****. Am I right in thinking the ball barely deviated for him all day yesterday? If so, cricticism for his reliance on conditions aside, are we not all being a little pessimistic?

Harmison blows hot and cold just as badly, but it seems to me to be his rhythm (confidence?) that is his problem. I'd be interested to know if he looked balenced yesterday - my money is on him decelerating into the delivery stride like he did in his early ENG career. I've seem him fall back into that a few times since, with consequences to his effectiveness. At these times, he looks like he is too scared of getting clatter to attack the stumps properly. If he gets into the right gear tomorrow, things could be different. Or did he look liek his rhythm was there, but he just couldn't get the control right?

As I said above, I don't see any reason to panic. We would all have hoped for more, and if the bowling was as unthreatening as some comments suggest then it was a disapointing day. One battle does not win a war though, esepcailly as we can expect these two do do better on another day?

From what I've seen, the first change spell was a tonic - four maidens and then a breakthrough for Jones - very much not the "wayward fastbowler" image that has been foisted upon him! Some traditional freddy fare at the other end (great bowling, little reward, missed catch in the slips ). So often in the past, Caddick and Gough would come off after a great spell and idiots like Cork, Mullally, God knows how many others would come on and let the buggers back into the match. Our dissappointment shouldn't be allowed to shunt aside the fact that these two are making the kind of progress that will turn them into genuine test-match bowlers. Just as Rome wasn't built in a day, very few bowlers are the finished article on debut and (though I diddn;t see yesterday) Jones seems to be getting better with every innings. Surely, all is not lost?

[Mike_Hock]

Sorry to hear about your early season woes Goatman. Surely things can only get better?

As for play yesterday, the pitch was a good batting wicket and Harmy and Hoggard were just out of sorts. Your right in saying we could bowl them out for 350, but its still possible they could make 500. I'd say that getting them 5 down on the first day was a DECENT effort. Its just the fact that NZ bat so low down that they could still make a big one. Therefore honours even after the first day. However, if Richardson had still been there it might have been a different story.

Jones did bowl well and he was more accurate then Hoggy and Harmy in my opinion. As soon as he came on he started to beat the bat and force the batsmen to play rash shots.

Looking forward to a good days play today. Come on Jonesy boy lets see another 5fer.

[Rachael]

Goatman.. I think you're suspicions are pretty well spot on here.

Harmison was appalling.. couldn't get any sort of rhythm, never settled and barely pitched any deliveries in the right areas or made the batsmen play. Hoggard was a lot, lot better.. at least on length... but was striving so hard for swing that didn't come that he ended up feeding the batsmen easy balls to score off. Neither were helped by Trescothick's 7-2 field placing that discouraged them from bowling at the stumps.. nor by his refusal to move mid on / mid off back to off some protection. No one was helped by Jones setting a very poor example behind the stumps.

Most importantly... neither of the new ball bowlers were helped by bowling from what, according to most commentators, were the "wrong" ends: Harmison was bowling fromthe end the swing bowlers have always favoured and Hoggard was bowling from the line and length merchant's preferred end.

In the entire morning session no one really seemed to be bowling to a plan.. and that included Flintoff and Jones... who both appeared a bit rusty. I can't say I blame them: it wasn't the sort of track where scoring runs was going to be easy... but I doubt any of our bowlers at any point turned to start their run thinking they had a shout, with that delivery, of sending down something unplayable.

The batting from NZ was about what you'd expect in the circumstances: when there was a ball that needed to be hit, they hit it... when there was an easy run on offer they took it, and the rest of the time they just watched the English bowlers wear themselves out to no very good effect.

The Richardson dismissal was dire: thick edge onto pad... and at a time when he was starting to open his shoulders and find the boundary ropes. Definitely swung the day England's way.. and I agree: a good session by England this morning and New Zealand are going to be struggling to save the Test.

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by Mike_Hock

Sorry to hear about your early season woes Goatman. Surely things can only get better?

Well, the second spell was much better and I had some bad luck - caught behind given Not out, 2 edges over slips head, an LBW called No ball (I still deny I'd overstepped, but what can you do!). My cutters were landing well, which is usually a good sign and I could have had 4 wickets from them, but only eneded up with 1 - I have a man back at long on for the mistimed drive (I get many of my wickets this way), but one dropped between the ring and man back and two chances were put down . In the end I had to do it myself, and grabbed a sweet C&B which split a partnership and brightenened my day a bit.

Originally Posted by Mike_Hock

As for play yesterday, the pitch was a good batting wicket and Harmy and Hoggard were just out of sorts. Your right in saying we could bowl them out for 350, but its still possible they could make 500. I'd say that getting them 5 down on the first day was a DECENT effort. Its just the fact that NZ bat so low down that they could still make a big one. Therefore honours even after the first day. However, if Richardson had still been there it might have been a different story.

Jones did bowl well and he was more accurate then Hoggy and Harmy in my opinion. As soon as he came on he started to beat the bat and force the batsmen to play rash shots.

Looking forward to a good days play today. Come on Jonesy boy lets see another 5fer.

thats what I felt - honours were pretty even. If NZ get it right, they can go on to get a very commanding position, but if ENG get it right they could reduce them to a very gettable total.

[Goatman]

WAHEY! Oram gone. Go get 'em Grievous!

[Mike_Hock]

Im in work today, but cricinfo seems to suggest that they are back to bowling a pile of dross. Bring on Jones for Hoggard, he is useless when it doesn't swing.

[Mike_Hock]

Flintoff to get Cairns out, his tight line will force a mistake