Butcher Or Strauss?

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Tom Partis

What is Hussain were to retire? that would solve the Strauss problem

vaughan, strauss (for the left hand/right hand partnership at the top) butcher, thorpe (bats best at 4) trescothick, flintoff, jones, hoggard, jones, anderson, harmison

Good Morning Tom

Move Vaughan down to four,and the rest as it is,if Hussaun goes it wont be the end of it ,there will be the Collingwood sopporters(some think he should be in the team rather thann Strauss) will want their man in the team,Butcher could well be next,.

[Tom Partis]

there is a definite call for vaughan to be played down the order, but i do feel that he is beginning to juggle the demands of opening the batting and captaining more effectively. i don't think butcher should be dropped at all - he looked all at sea yesterday morning and got out to a bad shot, but he is going to be the mainstay of our middle order in the next few years. to drop him now would be foolish.

[Teatime FatCat]

Tom,

I don't see how you can go with that side. No need for 5 seamers when 4 can do a job on an english pitch,and the tail is too long, with Flintoff and Jones nowhere near what you would call consistant.

I'd drop in Hussain or (gulp!) Giles for Anderson. Or here's a crazy idea - Blackwell or Afzaal as extra batsmen and part-time spinner!

[Whips_off_the_bails]

I don't see what is wrong with telling a batmsan to go back to his county and regain his form there - if someone else is genuinely making a case for selection. Alan Lamb at one point held a record for consecutive tests for England, but was dropped after a prolonged run of bad form and had to fight his way back in. Graham Gooch actually asked to be omitted once to concentrate on ironing out a fault in his technique.

The danger of central contracts is that they create the illusion of entitlement to a place in the side. It should be obvious to everybody that Strauss has guaranteed himself a place in the side for the rest of the summer. Dropping Giles at Headingley is one solution, but after that someone else will have to make way, and if Butcher is still the weakest link, he'll have to go back to Surrey and hit a big ton.

[Tom Partis]

TFC - i take your point about 5 seamers being too many at headingley, but i am simply being cautious. if one of our bowlers were to get injured, we would be left with only 3 frontline seamers, so having 5 in the team is kinda like having a keeper on the bench in football, just in case your no.1 gets injured/sent off. i also take your idea about bringing in the likes of blackwell/afzaal, but i think the idea is a bit too "out there" to be taken by the selectors. i'd rather see afzaal than blackwell though. i think if hussain carries on we will simply see vaughan swap with giles, but if hussain does decide to bow out, there are a lot more options for the selectors to ponder.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Whips_off_the_bails

I don't see what is wrong with telling a batmsan to go back to his county and regain his form there - if someone else is genuinely making a case for selection. Alan Lamb at one point held a record for consecutive tests for England, but was dropped after a prolonged run of bad form and had to fight his way back in. Graham Gooch actually asked to be omitted once to concentrate on ironing out a fault in his technique.

The danger of central contracts is that they create the illusion of entitlement to a place in the side. It should be obvious to everybody that Strauss has guaranteed himself a place in the side for the rest of the summer. Dropping Giles at Headingley is one solution, but after that someone else will have to make way, and if Butcher is still the weakest link, he'll have to go back to Surrey and hit a big ton.

Are you saying that Butcher is out of form. After one poor test - as stated before he was the highest scorer in the Windies, he has just scored a big ton for Surrey, and has had one bad match.

To say he is a weak link or out of form is absurd!!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat

Tom,

I don't see how you can go with that side. No need for 5 seamers when 4 can do a job on an english pitch,and the tail is too long, with Flintoff and Jones nowhere near what you would call consistant.

I'd drop in Hussain or (gulp!) Giles for Anderson. Or here's a crazy idea - Blackwell or Afzaal as extra batsmen and part-time spinner!

Hi TTC

Well you are original,i will give you that,Blackwell or Afzal for who'm?

I might be going stupid but I dont understand the first part of your post.

Flintoff and( Jones the bowler)" no where near what you'd call consistant"

I think you mean Flintoff and (Jones the Wk & batter) no where near consistant,what would you call consistant?

Have I misunderstood your post?

Ernest

[Teatime FatCat]

Originally Posted by ernest

Hi TTC

Well you are original,i will give you that,Blackwell or Afzal for who'm?

I might be going stupid but I dont understand the first part of your post.

Flintoff and( Jones the bowler)" no where near what you'd call consistant"

I think you mean Flintoff and (Jones the Wk & batter) no where near consistant,what would you call consistant?

Have I misunderstood your post?

Ernest

Now you've really confused me Ern - did I put Jones the bowler? I didn't think I did. I meant Flintoff can be all or nothing with the bat, and with Jones (THE KEEPER) it's too soon to tell how consistent he'd be, therefore a part time spinner / cum 7th batter instead of the 5th seamer would be my way forward. It lengthens the tail and still gives a fifth bowling option.

ps check out the other thread, I've had a dig at your post on Hoggy, only 'cos I'm feeling argumentative and he irks me.

[Teatime FatCat]

Originally Posted by Tom Partis

TFC - i take your point about 5 seamers being too many at headingley, but i am simply being cautious. if one of our bowlers were to get injured, we would be left with only 3 frontline seamers, so having 5 in the team is kinda like having a keeper on the bench in football, just in case your no.1 gets injured/sent off. i also take your idea about bringing in the likes of blackwell/afzaal, but i think the idea is a bit too "out there" to be taken by the selectors. i'd rather see afzaal than blackwell though. i think if hussain carries on we will simply see vaughan swap with giles, but if hussain does decide to bow out, there are a lot more options for the selectors to ponder.

Tom, Tom , Tom - relax, it'll all be cool! If one of our quicks broke down, I reckon you'd find Butcher more than handy (he may even take a couple of wickets too) and Tres could bowl a few constipators ('bung' an end up - geddit? Ha ha ha).

I think I'd rather see afzaal than Blackie, only cos I thought his bowling in the one dayers was pants. I turn it more, and I'm even fatter!

[Whips_off_the_bails]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Are you saying that Butcher is out of form. After one poor test - as stated before he was the highest scorer in the Windies, he has just scored a big ton for Surrey, and has had one bad match.

To say he is a weak link or out of form is absurd!!

I said he was the weakEST link, which implies comparison with the other links. As I've stated before, Butcher needs a kick up the backside. Convert those forties into fifties and hundreds. Strauss has had only two shots at this, and nearly succeeded on both occasions! He really is too good a player to be getting himself out the way he does.