Now come on lads.....

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by Whips_off_the_bails

So who is proposing that we drop a guy who scored 200 runs in the match with style and composure on his debut while opening the batting, the man of the match, a guy who is clearly in the form of his life?

I wouldn't mind Butcher being made to sweat a little. It irritates me the way he nods off in the slips and gets out to a silly shot when well-set.

The lady wife for one! There are some who are suggesting such a thing, and it certainly shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. If we do not drop him, it should be for a positive reason - not just because "You can't!".

It is the pressure for places that will acheive that improvement you want, and nothing else. I would certainly want to keep Strauss in the side (and if they do not intend to use him, they should certainly let him get some runs for Middlesex - I don't want ot see the poor lad carrying drinks!), and I would say that to keep that pressure on we need to prevent Nas from wanting to retire - so that leaves Butcher, Thrope or Tres making room for the returning Vaughan (the Mr. Piles debate aside) and I would be rather unhappy to see any of them losing out. Its tough, but unless they want to play 4 bowlers in Leeds it may be in the greater team interest to say to Strauss "great game, you WILL play again and SOON - but not today.....". If they do play 4 bowlers, they still have to make the same decision for the third test......

[Rich Greenfield]

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat

who might they be then?

Jones
Wallace
Foster
Prior

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Rich Greenfield

2 Keepers? I can think of 4 and that is not including Read who imo can not be considered a wicketkeeper batsmen.

Yep - I was going to add that, but I thought I would stick to just the two, for this point.

Having said that my group would include

Prior, Ambrose, Wallace, Foster, Read and Batty (although Batty has been in shoking form so far)

What about Tredwell as the spinner?

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by R W S

Also, the consensus spoken of to drop Trecothick is dubious and/or false although some suggested demotion down the order!! There have been some vocal calls to drop Tresco (you know who you are!) but, again, check out the poll thread regarding

R W S

Well I guess this is being aimed at me so I'm happy to add my comments.

Yes, I was a big advocate to drop Trescothick, and I still am to a certain extent. Nothing that has happened recently has changed my mind. What you conveniently omit to say in your post is the caveat I added with my views on dropping Trescothick - that there's still a big doubt in my mind as to how Tresco plays on pitches where the ball is seaming around or swinging. It was generally agreed that the track at Lord's would be one of those kinds of pitches where the ball would do something - it didnt. The weeks of nice sunshine we had before this recent Test ensured that it would be a nice flat batting track, with just enough in it for the bowlers - I've always maintained that Tresco will prosper on those kinds of tracks - which he did to a certain extent.

The other point I made about dropping Trescothick, you also left out of your post - that of the problem with the two openers failures in the Carribean. My argument for dropping Tresco was also tied in with this - that as both openers were failing something should be done about one of them - that happened by way of injury to Vaughan so in a way I got what I wanted - another opener in to replace one of those openers. If you recall I said EITHER they should drop Trescothick and bring in Strauss OR drop Vaughan down the order and bring Strauss in to open with Trescothick.

I still feel that Strauss should open with Tresco, with Vaughan dropping down to No.4 when he comes back. This is something I've always maintained, and notice this 'viewpoint' is gathering momentum in the media.

However, I still have doubts in my mind about Trescothicks ability to play well when the balls moving about either off the seam or swinging, and I shall be very interested to see how he does in the next two Tests.

Scott

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Rich Greenfield

Jones
Wallace
Foster
Prior

Prior is such a great keeper he has hardly kept for Sussex this summer. I don't think you can include him.

[Rich Greenfield]

I would be against dropping Vaughan down the order. If i was going to drop anyone it would be banger. Thorpe should be batting at 4 as well

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Goatman

Come on lads! Lets see a bit more analysis in these debates than just whose scored the least runs in the last 2 weeks!

Goatman

Nice eloquent post.

I notice how you completely avoided the problem though! So, if Nas continues and Vaughan is fit - who do you play and who do you leave out?

Scott

[R W S]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

R W S
....
Scott

Scott my my good man thank you for your thorough response. I think we will have plenty of juicy discussion in this area in the run up to the next test - maybe you would like to create the next poll regarding who should play where at Leeds.

Please accept that I did not misrepresent you or name you AND I put the link that showed all views in full in my post.

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by R W S

Please accept that I did not misrepresent you or name you AND I put the link that showed all views in full in my post.

R W S

I know - it's not a problem. I think my views regarding Trescothick are well known enough on here that people won't have to wonder who you're talking about!

I do want to once again put a few things to rest.

I'm NOT anti-Trescothick for the sake of being anti-Trescothick! I like him immensely as a person and a cricketer, he's a great ambassador for the game - I just have reservations about his ability to play consistently on all types of pitches. I think his performance in the Carribean really 'found him out' on 'difficult' pitches and until he demonstrates a consistent ability to be able to make runs on all types of pitches, I'm afraid my reservations will always be there.

Likewise Chris Read, my views on Chris Read are entirely to do with his inability to bat, as people, Jones and Read are equally likeable. Likewise Giles, my only concerns there are to do with his ability as a spinner, likewise all the rest of the players in the England side. I really don't have favourites or pet hates - it's all about their individual abilities, and what they bring to the England table.

Scott

[Whips_off_the_bails]

I can still see the logic of Hussain being the one facing the chop, since Botham's arguments still hold up (and were not motivated by sheer malice, like Gatting's). The chief one is that we don't want all the senior batsmen retiring together leaving the side robbed of experience. Also we want the newbies bedded in before the next Ashes series.

There are some indications that Nasser may be thinking on these lines himself, and contrary to what has been said by some, he will do what he thinks is best for the team. That may be making himself available for selection to South Africa.

In fact, I think that unless he does make himself available to tour, he should be dropped for the Windies series.

You know how hard that is to write about my favourite cricketer?