Now come on lads.....

[Goatman]

It is the ideal note to go out on, isn't it. If he does stay on for a year, we should all - selectors, team and supporters - show exactly how much we all appreciate his commitment to the team, and make sure he doesn't lose that. His performance yesterday - playing second string to Strauss, keeping NZ out until it was too late for them them battering them atfer tea - would have been as close to cricketing perfection as I had seen, had he not buggered up his calling . Still, he more than made up for that in my book.

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Goatman

I may have misunderstood people, but I got the impression of a a "Strauss in in, so who is out" sort of situation. I'm looking for a situation where everyone is in, or very nearly. Basically, whoever loses out in Leeds should be back in the team come the third test in my mind. Its the only way to maintain the pressure on places.

Goaty

Wasn't my view. I tend to agree with Boyc's on this one - you play your 5 in form batsman, that may mean Butch gets dropped in the next Test (if they go with Giles) but Butch stays in the squad, with Collingwood and Anderson.

I'm all for experimentation, I'm all for tweaking winning sides - play your strongest XI. Who would the Kiwi's rather bowl against in the next Test - Strauss or Butcher? No-ones consigning Butch to the scrap heap, he's an excellent No.3 which he's proved again and again, but he looked out of sorts against the Kiwi's - got out to two very silly shots. He would know its only temporary, until Nas retires, but he needs to know that he's got to perform to keep his place.

I've always been against playing the same players over and over and over. I've also been against only making changes when you're losing - that's reactive management and not proactive. Proactive management is about assessing the opposition strengths, assessing the pitch and playing your best XI for those circumstances. The situation with Anderson and Hoggard is a good one, they're both similar swing type bowlers, Hoggard knows he has to continue to perform to keep Anderson out of the side - this can only be a good thing for English Cricket, it should be no different for the batsmen.

This is a new era in English Cricket - with quality players competing for places - they can only get better from here.

Scott

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by sostenurter

Out of interest, what happens if we leave out Giles for Headingley, play six bats (Tres, Vaughan, Butch, Nas, Thorpe, Strauss) and Butcher hits a century? Suppose then that there is a lot of sunshine in Nottingham and a spinner is deemed necessary for Trent Bridge? What happens then? Ah, the dilemma! This is great! In my entire lifetime of supporting the England cricket team, there's never been this much competition for places!

Sos

Then they play the best 5 batsmen suited to the conditions, and start looking at batsmen weaknesses according to bowler and pitch type. eg. If x player has been dismissed x times by x bowler on x type pitch, then you know that batsman has a weakness against a particular bowler in certain situations, would be wise to perhaps play another yes?

Scott

[Goatman]

Two things that Boycott overlooks are the fact that if they are in the squad, but not playing - they don't play. Thier form will suffer. Its also true that a team which is winning will contain in-form players, which would tend to cause an unchanging 11 like the one your trying to avoid. the only way to maintain the pressure over a long period is if the squad all know that SOMEONE will get rested after each test, but that they will be back in for the next. Like I say - if Butcher is left out for 2nd test, he should be in for the 3rd.

[Rich Greenfield]

That means that Athers would never have played against Mcgrath, Vaas or Pollock

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Goatman

had he not buggered up his calling . Still, he more than made up for that in my book.

Goaty

Well I'm not convinced that was down to Hussain. I don't think its fair to blame either of them, it was a genuine mix up between the pair of them for reasons I've given elsewhere - they were BOTH to blame!

Hussain perhaps made an optomistic call, Strauss didn't respond as he should have - both to blame.

Scott

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Goatman

Two things that Boycott overlooks are the fact that if they are in the squad, but not playing - they don't play. Thier form will suffer. Its also true that a team which is winning will contain in-form players, which would tend to cause an unchanging 11 like the one your trying to avoid. the only way to maintain the pressure over a long period is if the squad all know that SOMEONE will get rested after each test, but that they will be back in for the next. Like I say - if Butcher is left out for 2nd test, he should be in for the 3rd.

Goaty

If they're all playing well and winning - you won't need to make any chnges will you! It's only when you assess performances you see where you can improve - and then make changes accordingly - aka the opening partnership, I still maintain Vaughan will bat better at No.4 than opening!

Scott

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Goaty

Well I'm not convinced that was down to Hussain. I don't think its fair to blame either of them, it was a genuine mix up between the pair of them for reasons I've given elsewhere - they were BOTH to blame!

Hussain perhaps made an optomistic call, Strauss didn't respond as he should have - both to blame.

Scott

Even if it was only 1/2 down to Hussain, it prevents the performance from reaching perfection. We are just debating whether it was 98% or 99% perfect!

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Goatman

Even if it was only 1/2 down to Hussain, it prevents the performance from reaching perfection. We are just debating whether it was 98% or 99% perfect!

Goaty

LOL

Fair enough.

One thing I do know - we'd not be laughing about this had we lost the game because it - thats for sure!

As far as Hussain's performance - one of his very best in his entire England history in my mind. Just shows what a versatile guy he is, gritty when needed, fluent when needed, defends when needed, attacks when needed.

I had to laugh when Hussain and Thorpe were interviewed afterwards - Thorpey just said 'I told him not to worry about the run out, we'll do it together - just let me do the calling from now on'

He also said the lefty, righty combination messed them (Kiwis) up a bit as well, if you noticed, as soon as Hussain could, he took a quick single off Vettori, to alllow Thorpe to play strokes against him, as it was easier for the lefty to play and score off Vettori than Hussain. Good intelligent batting from two of our premier batsmen.

Scott

[R W S]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Goaty

As far as Hussain's performance - one of his very best in his entire England history in my mind. Just shows what a versatile guy he is, gritty when needed, fluent when needed, defends when needed, attacks when needed.

I would also complement him on his fielding. His run out may have been the most significant act in the field.