My Team For Headingly

[Rich Greenfield]

Originally Posted by Oliver

OK I'll put the spanner in the works:

Let's go with

Trescothick (finding form again.)
Strauss (why split an effective partnership?)
Vaughan (reduced captaincy pressure/expectation at three. He can drop to 4 on Nasser's retirement.)
Hussain (I've been arguing for his de-selection for some time! OK give him another Test.)
Thorpe (still looking good)
Flintoff (batting average over 42 since 2002 is that right?)
G.Jones (looking very good with the bat.)
Giles (Errmm...balanced attack)
S.Jones (maybe his reduced pace will be a blessing in the long term?)
Harmison (looking very useful)
Anderson (back to his best?)

I was just thinking how well Hussain played while Strauss was putting the pressure on.
Butcher should be sent back to Surrey with a flea in his ear, to re-discover his form. Obviously he will come back into the side the moment Hussain announces his retirement, but just for now he is a squad player and needs to show his worth.
Like Bell, Key and Hick(eek!, surely not) and all those other chaps hitting double centuries the length and breadth of the country.

Since Hoggard announced that he would be boring out the West Indians in the Caribbean he has bowled even greater heaps of crap - not forgetting his hat-trick. Anderson is currently top of the county averages, which I would hope proves that he is BACK. It would be sad for Hoggard to miss his home Test - and I've always been a horses for courses man, but he has been struggling and I think we should attempt to grind the Kiwis into the dust rather than allowing them back into the series with a lot of easy runs.

There! That should get a few responses.

You said your a horses for courses man, So tell me what course suits Giles?
Butcher has average of 43 since he got back in the team, Vaughan is the best opener so either Strauss or Banger should drop down the order. Banger and Strauss an effective partnership? they have only had one test.

[freddie flintoff 142]

id go with

tres
strauss
butch
vaughan (takes a bit of pressure off him, batting suites number 4 i feel as well, Gooch had a good time when he played at 4)
hussain
thorpe
fred
g o jones
s p jones
hoggard/anderson
harmi


no need for giles at headingly and vaughan can fil in a few overs as can butch or tres
if hussain does decide to retire then giles can come and give a 'variration' of slow bowling.

anderson is hot on the heals of hoggy but dont think hoggy should be dropped tho, even tho jimmy is a hobby hourse of mine

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Rich Greenfield

You said your a horses for courses man, So tell me what course suits Giles?
Butcher has average of 43 since he got back in the team, Vaughan is the best opener so either Strauss or Banger should drop down the order. Banger and Strauss an effective partnership? they have only had one test.

Fair enough Rich, I just wanted to get the discussion going...
...there's not much point in discussion if everyone agrees.

People in the know, have been talking since 5.40pm yesterday about England not wanting to go to Headingly without a balanced attack. Which suggests that Giles is going to keep his place.

I reckon the only problems are: do you drop someone to bring in Vaughan if he's fit?
Well, yes of course you do. He's the skipper. The two most obvious candidates are Trescothick and Butcher.
Butcher got fewer runs (was out more than twice!) and perhaps it would concentrate his mind if he lost his place for a match or three.
Somebody has got to go, if they're only going to play five specialist batsmen.

Playing the in-form batsman should always be answer...shouldn't it?

And the other problem is: do you drop Hoggard?
He is meant to be the tidy, economical chap. He doesn't have express pace, so he must bowl tightly and remove players by guile. That hasn't really worked much over the last year. Obviously there have been some startling exceptions to prove the rule.

There is competition for places. Hurrah! If Anderson is going to be a long term shoe-in, he mustn't be left pawing the ground when he's stuck himself on top of the averages. He's bowling well, Hoggard is not.

[Rich Greenfield]

Personally i don't care if the attack is balanced or not. The only question in my mind is picking an attack that will take 20 wickets asap. Therefore Giles would never get in to a team i would pick as he is kak. People argue that he is the best of a bad punch. If he is (and i'm sure there are better spinners out there somewhere) then i say fine drop him and pick another quciky or batsmen who will help win a game. Giles has never win game and never will imo.

[sostenurter]

Originally Posted by Rich Greenfield

Personally i don't care if the attack is balanced or not. The only question in my mind is picking an attack that will take 20 wickets asap. Therefore Giles would never get in to a team i would pick as he is kak. People argue that he is the best of a bad punch. If he is (and i'm sure there are better spinners out there somewhere) then i say fine drop him and pick another quciky or batsmen who will help win a game. Giles has never win game and never will imo.

Agreed. I really don't see the point of playing a spinner at Headingley, especially not when you've got the seamers we have. Plus, as I've mentioned before, the lack of a quality spinner may not be too damaging even in the long-term if we can get Simon Jones to reverse swing the ball regularly, like he did on Sunday. That way, we'll have someone who can be a major threat with the old ball.

[R W S]

The NZers have had a good look at all our bowlers (220+ overs) and took a liking to them at some time over the four days they batted. They've yet to have a look at the improved Jimmy . . . . There is a tactical case to be argued here for including the curiously coffiured one.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Jones and freddie looked very useful, I'm really starting to see him as a proper all rounder. We can avoid answering pointy questions like which batsman gets dropped, by leaving out giles. Its as black as your hat over this part of sheffield so a bit of rain inbetween tests will guarentee giles staying at home. Butch and tresco might be keener to bowl if strauss is breathing down their neck.

If it stays dry giles will play (God its painful to type that) and strauss will lose out. Expect high scores from tresco and butch as they try to keep strauss at bay.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by sostenurter

Agreed. I really don't see the point of playing a spinner at Headingley, especially not when you've got the seamers we have. Plus, as I've mentioned before, the lack of a quality spinner may not be too damaging even in the long-term if we can get Simon Jones to reverse swing the ball regularly, like he did on Sunday. That way, we'll have someone who can be a major threat with the old ball.

I would most certainly drop Giles myself. I just don't think the selectors will.
I think they're happy with five specialist batsmen.

And who says Vaughan is the better opener? Hasn't his form suffered since he took the captaincy?
I believe he was number one on the PricewaterhouseCoopers ratings after the Ashes but where is he now?
Trescothick is our current number one isn't he? Or perhaps it's Thorpe (yes stat perusal tells me that Thorpe is 17 and Trescothick and Vaughan are currently 18th equal.) Strauss is number 52 after one Test...not a bad rise on a good batting track.

Take pressure off the skip, stick him in the middle order. Galvanise any under-performers.

And with the bowling...will we remove the super boil that is Richardson without a varied attack?
Will Vaughan want to risk his knee - pivoting in a dusty crease - bowling off-breaks?

Hmmm.

[freddie flintoff 142]

Originally Posted by Oliver

And with the bowling...will we remove the super boil that is Richardson without a varied attack?
Will Vaughan want to risk his knee - pivoting in a dusty crease - bowling off-breaks?

Hmmm.

thats a worrying thought really

at least were talkinga bout competition for places through form and talent rather than which 4 guna come in for a dead bowling attack or batters with busted fingures

[Tom Partis]

Originally Posted by freddie flintoff 142

id go with

tres
strauss
butch
vaughan (takes a bit of pressure off him, batting suites number 4 i feel as well, Gooch had a good time when he played at 4)
hussain
thorpe
fred
g o jones
s p jones
hoggard/anderson
harmi


no need for giles at headingly and vaughan can fil in a few overs as can butch or tres
if hussain does decide to retire then giles can come and give a 'variration' of slow bowling.

anderson is hot on the heals of hoggy but dont think hoggy should be dropped tho, even tho jimmy is a hobby hourse of mine

you can't bat thorpe at 6! he's a no.4 - even batting him at no.5 is a waste of his talent, he's too exposed to the tail there.