My Team For Headingly

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Tom Partis

you can't bat thorpe at 6! he's a no.4 - even batting him at no.5 is a waste of his talent, he's too exposed to the tail there.

Absolutely...though I think five is alright.

I suggest there is a feeling here that if we pack the side with batsmen, then we can't possibly lose.
Well we've tried that before and it doesn't work. The pressure at Test level becomes intolerable if you are facing an enormous total. You still need the bowlers to take the wickets. Yes Giles has had a poor six months or so, but if the bowling is too samey I can imagine Richardson batting for five days.

Fleming will eventually find his feet, and doubtless McMillan and Astle will do the business in one Test...hopefully not in the same one. But those boys can bat.
I discount McCullum as he was out three times in that one innings...("that little bit of luck you need" as Jon Agnew would say.)

[Rich Greenfield]

And Giles is going to take wickets bowling his negative C*** outside legstump? Out of his his spell (that was about 25 overs too long) he bowled about 6 balls on the stumps and none outside off stump.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Rich Greenfield

And Giles is going to take wickets bowling his negative C*** outside legstump? Out of his his spell (that was about 25 overs too long) he bowled about 6 balls on the stumps and none outside off stump.

Rich, please read my posts. I too would drop Ashley.

I just don't think the selectors will.

You want to play six specialist batsmen and Flintoff, Jones, Jones, Harmison and Hoggard/Anderson.
In which order are you going to put those top six?
How many of the guys will be batting in unfamiliar positions?

[Rich Greenfield]

Read the first post in this thread and you'll see the order i would put them in

[high_on_linseed]

It would be a grave injustice to omit Mark Butcher from the side after ONE poor game.
He is not out of rom - he stroked a century for Surrey immediately prior to Lords.

Dropping a player after one game is not competition. It destroys competition by destroying the morale of the player. Also, as Ive said before, said, what if Tres or Thorpe or Strauss or Nas bag low scores at Headingley (very possible). Do we then drag Butcher back in and give the necxt guy the same treatment. Dropping Hussain would be the end of his career. Dropping Strauss would be barmy. Dropping Thorpe? no, he did just as much as Hussain to secure the win. Nasser may retire.

If Nassser deosnt retire. the choice becomes stark. There are two players who have consistently disapointed over the last year or so (though even they have had their moments), and should therefore be prime candidates for the drop. they are Ashley Giles and Marcus Trescothick. Now, funnily enough, they are the biggest mates with Michael Vaughan and favorites of Duncan Fletcher. So, will England have the balls to drop one or the other? Persoanlly, i think giles should go, as tres is doing just enough to retain his place. Giles may be useful in blocking up an end, he may be not. it depends what the wicket is like. But as good chance of England winning would be to bat first, set up a good total for the pitch and go at the kiwis full-on with plenty of runs on the board:

Vaughan, Strauss, Butcher, Hussain, Thorpe, Trescothick, Flintoff, G Jones, S Jones, Hoggard, Harmison.

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Rich Greenfield

And Giles is going to take wickets bowling his negative C*** outside legstump? Out of his his spell (that was about 25 overs too long) he bowled about 6 balls on the stumps and none outside off stump.

Rich

I'm not a Giles fan, he does bring something to Englands table, but I must spring to his defence here.

Giles is lefty finger spinner, you'll find ALL lefty finger spinners will bowl the ball on or around leg stump because it turns from leg to off! that's the direction the spin is going - from leg stump to off stump! Whats the point in bowling anything on or outside off stump when all its going to do is turn even further away to the off side? Right handed batsman will just stand there, leave every single ball alone and square cut all the bad balls for 4!

For a right handed batsman he has to pitch the ball on leg stump or middle and leg and get it turn away from leg to off hoping to get an edge or forward edge to the slips, keeper or bat pad. Vettori is a lefty finger spinner and he did exactly the same thing.

Come on Rich - wakey wakey mate!

Scott

[Rich Greenfield]

Or he could go around the wicket and attack the batsmen and try and make him play every ball instead of allowing the batsmen to kick 95% of the balls away.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Rich Greenfield

Read the first post in this thread and you'll see the order i would put them in

Vaughan
Strauss/Tres
Butcher
Thorpe
Hussian
Tres/Strauss
Fred
Jones
Jones
Hoggard/Anderson
Harmison

Ok yup fair point, it was so long ago, I forgot about it.
This is based on the assumption that it's a seamers wicket so we need to pack the side with batting.
Or is it, we don't know who to drop, so let's play them all.

Strauss to open with Trescothick at six is your preferred version I imagine. Why drop Hussain from four?
Why put Thorpe up? Hussain is a better man for a crisis, Thorpe always plays best when there are runs already on the board. He is better at five.
OK Trescothick at six to take on Vettori. That's good. But Vaughan was fantastic before he was made skipper.
He has certainly felt the pressure of the job. Here's a god(who he?)-given opportunity to drop him down the order without unduly affecting the balance of the side. Drop him down to three, leave out Butcher and put the fear of god in him.
He'll probably bat quite well after Nasser's retirement.

[Rich Greenfield]

I'd swap Thorpe and Hussian becuase the best batsmen in the side should bat at 4 and imo that is Thorpe (except Vaughan). I'd stick Vaughan up top as he is a very good opener and I reckon if possible you should always have a left/right to disrupt the opening bowlers. You can't drop Butcher because of one bad test, don't forget he has average well over 40 in the last 2 years

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by high_on_linseed

It would be a grave injustice to omit Mark Butcher from the side after ONE poor game.
He is not out of rom - he stroked a century for Surrey immediately prior to Lords.

Dropping a player after one game is not competition. It destroys competition by destroying the morale of the player. Also, as Ive said before, said, what if Tres or Thorpe or Strauss or Nas bag low scores at Headingley (very possible). Do we then drag Butcher back in and give the necxt guy the same treatment. Dropping Hussain would be the end of his career. Dropping Strauss would be barmy. Dropping Thorpe? no, he did just as much as Hussain to secure the win. Nasser may retire.

Oh to have the riches of Australia. Langer, Hayden, Bevan, Waugh, Waugh, Ponting, Martyn, Lehmann, Clarke, Symonds...
Gilchrist and four bowlers. Whoops hang on that's ten...we'll have to leave four of those guys out. Hmmm Ok let's retire the Waughs, leave out Symonds because he's a bit hit and miss and then... hmmmm Lehmann?, no, Langer?...

I dunno, but they can't all play.

God how terrible, just fancy having more batsmen than you need to pick from.
Lovely!