Jones or Read

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Electric Vic

He kept well on a shirtfront in the Windies, but how will he fare when the ball is moving off the seam and in the air?

One daft side-thing is that Jones keeps the old fashioned English way, advocated by the coaches because it gives the 'keeper a better chance to adjust to late movement in the air after passing the bat... and Read has been converted (against the advice of many old-timers) to Marsh's preferred way of doing things.. and we've not had the chance to see how it shapes up when put under pressure.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Sean Beynon

I'm not sure that's true. If we can assume Read will remain one-day keeper, I would guess he would replace Jones if some injury or another were to befall him.

Dont bank on it,they could put Foster in!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Electric Vic

If there had been another category, "continue to pick Jones for Tests unless his keeping isn't up to it", I would have voted for that. I'm all for giving new players a decent run in the team, but we need more time to see how Jones fares - especially in English conditions - before booking him in for the next six or seven matches. He kept well on a shirtfront in the Windies, but how will he fare when the ball is moving off the seam and in the air?

E Vic

But we know how both Jones and Read keeps in English conditions,they have played for there counties,what have either got to prove,they have both done it,keeping for counties or Tests,just the same.

So the question is who is the best keeper,we already know

ernest

[R W S]

Originally Posted by ernest

E Vic

But we know how both Jones and Read keeps in English conditions,they have played for there counties,what have either got to prove,they have both done it,keeping for counties or Tests,just the same.

So the question is who is the best keeper,we already know

ernest

Right on the money here Ernest!! I havent heard a more succint appraisal of the sutiation anywhere! You're on top form tonight!

PS Good to see the spell checker in use tonite also!

[Tom Partis]

it seems pretty clear to me that read is always going to be the better keeper, regardless of how much jones improves and whether lords was just a bad match with the gloves. but the question is, is jones' batting going to be sufficiently good enough to make up for the gulf between their wicket keeping skills? at the moment, judging from jones' performance at lords, i would say it hangs on a knife edge. if he is to improve with the gloves, then i think the position will be his for good. either way, he must be given the same chance as read to settle into the team and show what he can do, and that means giving him the summer to prove his worth, just as read was given the winter.

[Goatman]

I reckon in most things in life - and not least cricket - confidence is the key to success. I would not be surprised if Jones has had a few butterflies in his first two tests. I say, give him until the end of the summer and reassess his glovework then. He is a keeper, not a convert so if he has kept poorly it is only reasonable to assume he can keeper better. Lets give him the chance to prove that wrong or right before we decide, either way. When both keepers have had a few tests and we can see what thye are capable of in both departments, THEN we can make an informed decision. Before that, I don't see how we can be remotely sure that the decision we are making is for long term success, or short term expediency.

Its one of those situations thats tricky. We have to decide what is best for the team. After the summer charade last year, I reckoned that we should pick our two most promising wicket taking chances - Harmison and SP Jones - and tell them to go out and take wickets - thier performance would be judged on strike rate alone in effect, and if they went for a few, well so what? It wasn't so popular at the time - lots of people wanted to see more control in the attack, and poeple like Bicknell and Saggers were popular selections. The team lacked any kind of penetration with the ball though, and for me you can't win a test without taking 20 wickets! Frankly, I had no idea what did happen would happen - I anticipated to see one of them do well and one dissappear bcak to the counties and vanish. Still, the point is that Fletch and co clearly had a similar view on the matter and the fact is that the team now DOES have pentration, and by thunder does it look at better outfit that that bloody awful lot put out against SA! We filled the "gap" in the team, and its impact has had wider influence than even Grievous's stunning figures would suggest - the level of belief in the team has gone through the roof.

The situation with the keepers here is similar:- we need to analyse what the team lacks. Are we more likely to get given the hurry-up with the bat, or are we more likely to need that extra spark in the field - in other words, are we likely to more often be on the receiving end of 700-5dec from the opposition, or 47 a/o from ourselves? We should be very happy that we have an option to cover either of these eventualities! This is a great time to be an ENG supporter. We actually look like we might be a remotely effective team! I don't know which part of the game we need the cover in yet - the bowlers in particular are very young and we have really not seen what they are capable of long term yet, for the good and for the bad. I say, lets give GO Jones his chance to prove his critics wrong and hope that in the meantime the question posed in this paragraph is answered for us.

[Electric Vic]

Originally Posted by ernest

E Vic

But we know how both Jones and Read keeps in English conditions,they have played for there counties,what have either got to prove,they have both done it,keeping for counties or Tests,just the same.

So the question is who is the best keeper,we already know

ernest

Up to a point, Ernest... but test matches are a step up in class from the county game, and there are actually a few people watching! As Goatman says, butterflies may play a part, especially if your first match in England happens to be at HQ. Plus, you are likely to be in the field for longer, and concentration is a factor.

By the way, given the competition between them, it's good to see there doesn't seem to be any personal enmity between Jones and Read - Jones said Read gave him some advice when he was picked for the last test in the Windies. They both seem to have the right attitude.

[Victor Frankenstein]

that must be a very hard thing to do, on read's column he said they both got on very well and swapped tips on batting and keeping to help each other improve, but if read taught jones to keep as well as him, read would never be seen again, and vice versa with the bat, it's not the same as bowlers and batsmen helping each other as at least there are a few places up for grabs and can change from year to year, the keeper tends to stay for a long long time once a final decision is made.

[R W S]

Originally Posted by Victor Frankenstein

that must be a very hard thing to do, on read's column he said they both got on very well and swapped tips on batting and keeping to help each other improve, but if read taught jones to keep as well as him, read would never be seen again, and vice versa with the bat, it's not the same as bowlers and batsmen helping each other as at least there are a few places up for grabs and can change from year to year, the keeper tends to stay for a long long time once a final decision is made.

The whole team look much more collaborative of late. There seems a real buzz around England Cricket Club.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Electric Vic

Up to a point, Ernest... but test matches are a step up in class from the county game, and there are actually a few people watching! As Goatman says, butterflies may play a part, especially if your first match in England happens to be at HQ. Plus, you are likely to be in the field for longer, and concentration is a factor.

hi E Vic

late answering but I could not sign on been sorting it out with admin.

Yes but a keeper is not like a batter or a bowler ,is he?A batter faces better bowlers at Test level,and a bowler ,bowls to better batsmen.

So you cannot compare the two until they play in a Test and see how they shape up against top class opposition.

But a keeper is different,he plays against lesser bowlers,who can be spraying the ball all over the place,and poorer batsmen getting nicks.

I dont know why Goatman should say that,so what if Jones had butterflies at Lords,dont forget Read had to make his debut also.

Jones has not beenin the England team long enough to be compared at international level,he has only played two matches.

We all know read is the best keeper,the selectors have picked jones because they dont trust our top order batsmen,and the full selection board did not pick Jones in the first place.



So I would say that a keeper is best judged at county level,where he will have to use more skill.

Ernest