Jones or Read

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Victor Frankenstein

I think he has potential to improve though, which must count for something surely?

I'm no expert on keeping, but from watching jones compared to read, he just seems too hard at the ball, his gloves seem much stiffer than reads, this could just be partly down to nerves, far more scope for improvement when you get 600+ goes per day compared with just one for batting though.

Agreed.

Jones seems to be, if anything, at a lower level ('keeping wise) than Stewart was at when he first took over the gloves.. but Stewart got passable in the end.. and with the right coaching and opportunities to improve I don't doubt Jones will do the same.

Leaves the same old questions: {a} What do we do for the 2-3 years that is likely to take; and {b} is that level one we are going to be satisfied with when we could actually have something a lot, lot better.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Agreed.

Jones seems to be, if anything, at a lower level ('keeping wise) than Stewart was at when he first took over the gloves.. but Stewart got passable in the end.. and with the right coaching and opportunities to improve I don't doubt Jones will do the same.

Leaves the same old questions: {a} What do we do for the 2-3 years that is likely to take; and {b} is that level one we are going to be satisfied with when we could actually have something a lot, lot better.

This is cr*p, Stewart as I have said many times on this board was first selected by Surrey as a keeper. Only as he got into his mid-twenties did he become seen as a good batsman.

He was not a poor keeper at all, he just wasn't as good as Russel.

The situation is the same here Jones is a good keeper, but because he is not as good as Read you blinker you views and insult his ability,

He has droped one catch but taken many more, his batting is a different class than Read's.

Now I supported Read and like him, but at some point you have to realise that Jones has a batsman/keeper is better for England than Read as a pure Keeper.

Debate over, as there is no question who will be playing for England in South Africa.

[Richard Jenkins]

My vote


Jones as a wickie batsmen until Wi have toured, and then look at results; The Jury was out until yesterday, when Jones scored a century. however, he needs to think about big scores. I think Jones could make ricky Ponting look tame!!

[sostenurter]

Re: Scott's point about the spinner and keeper slots being linked.


It's quite ironic to consider that whilst everyone says that you need a specialist keeper like Read to stand up to a spinner - England won't have the chance to play a spinner/experiment with new spinners unless they play Jones as keeper!

In any case, I reckon Jones will keep fine to a spinner - he kept to Murali at Kent.

[R W S]

Originally Posted by sostenurter

Re:
In any case, I reckon Jones will keep fine to a spinner - he kept to Murali at Kent.

Checkmate!!

Read had 16 at bats in his 11 tests - never scoring more than 38 in an aggregate of 199 at 15.3.
Jones is within 5 runs after 4 attempts.

Now I know stats are only data and to get information from them you have to process them but I like the headline interpretation that says Jones is 20-25 runs better than Read. All that is said about the negative effect on team morale of the keeper looking untidy is balanced by the positive effect on team moral of having Jones bat at 7 (or even 8 if we swap Mr P. Iles for a Pieterson type).

Ask the opposition who they'd rather see on the teamsheet!

And what do you think Styris thinks of GO Jones now?

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Stewart as I have said many times on this board was first selected by Surrey as a keeper. Only as he got into his mid-twenties did he become seen as a good batsman.

You can be selected as a specialist county 'keeper and still be pretty ordinary with the gloves. Stewart improved, and was eventually more than passable... but we had several tours without a Test class gloveman as he got himself up to that level.

None of the TMS commentators seem to think Jones' 'keeping is really up to it just yet... and even towards the end of Jones' big innings yesterday Mike Gatting was suggesting that right now it's still a tough call on the 'keeper front: doesn't mean any of them write off his chances of getting up to a decent standard in the long run... or necessarily disapprove of his selection... but it puts in perspective the hailing of him as the answer to many prayers.

[sostenurter]

Jones has looked pretty good with the gloves in the NZ second innings! Two blinding catches, a couple of great stops and a run-out! Improving all the time.

[Victor Frankenstein]

yep, fair play to the lad he's kept very well today so if he keeps improving and maintains his form with the bat he could completely shut out all competition like stewart did.

This sort of debate always comes down to personal tastes, those that tend towards high batting scores will go for the batting/keeper, those that prefer wickets tend towards the keeper/batsman. Read was such a joy to watch as a proper keeper that it's just a shame he couldn't bring on his batting to a sufficient level (and also that the existing batting lineup couldn't support a proper keeper). I guess from my point of view i feel wickets are what wins matchs far more than batting so i'd go for the highest chance of taking wickets (no good scoring 700+ if you can't take 20 wickets).

Again, i'm not saying jones should be dropped in any way shape or form, i'm just saying don't be so dismissive of read.

[sostenurter]

Originally Posted by Victor Frankenstein

yep, fair play to the lad he's kept very well today so if he keeps improving and maintains his form with the bat he could completely shut out all competition like stewart did.

This sort of debate always comes down to personal tastes, those that tend towards high batting scores will go for the batting/keeper, those that prefer wickets tend towards the keeper/batsman. Read was such a joy to watch as a proper keeper that it's just a shame he couldn't bring on his batting to a sufficient level (and also that the existing batting lineup couldn't support a proper keeper). I guess from my point of view i feel wickets are what wins matchs far more than batting so i'd go for the highest chance of taking wickets (no good scoring 700+ if you can't take 20 wickets).

Again, i'm not saying jones should be dropped in any way shape or form, i'm just saying don't be so dismissive of read.

Fair point, but a lot of people are being very dismissive of Geraint Jones, who has after all batted exceptionally and gone on to keep extremely well in this second innings - if Read had had that kind of performance behind the stumps everyone would be saying what a great keeper he was, how he'd taken vital catches that had sparked the NZ collapse etc. It'd be nice if Jones could get some credit for that.

[R W S]

Originally Posted by Rachael

None of the TMS commentators seem to think Jones' 'keeping is really up to it just yet... and even towards the end of Jones' big innings yesterday Mike Gatting was suggesting that right now it's still a tough call on the 'keeper front: doesn't mean any of them write off his chances of getting up to a decent standard in the long run... or necessarily disapprove of his selection... but it puts in perspective the hailing of him as the answer to many prayers.

The've just announced on TMS that the oneday squad will not be announced tomorrow as planned because there is dispute over who should play as WK - with a strong case being made for Jones on the back of his efforts here! It works both ways . . .