Hussain retires from all first class cricket

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by R W S

Now DL is not involved in the England setup I take your point that his opinion is not gospel - where did you read your version?

Rob Key or maybe Ed Joyce

To be honest - I can't remember!! I read so much!!

Key possibly - Joyce tends not to open for Middlesex. However, I would love to see England get Bell into the side. I think he will develop into a great player once he starts playing at the heighest level.

The other possibilty (although he may be too young) is Cook? But he may have to wait till we tour Oz for his chance.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by sostenurter

I have been away from the boards for a bit and coming back to them and reading the posts about Nasser, I have to say that I am shocked that a) Nasser has chosen to retire now and b) the praise he has been getting for doing this. Make no mistake, I am as big a fan of Nasser as most of the people on this board. I believe, like Clive, that he was the saviour of English cricket. He lifted us out of the doldrums and every English cricket fan should be grateful to him for this.

But this does not change the fact that, to my mind, Nasser has let this side down by retiring in the middle of the series at short notice. If he was going to quit he should have done so before this series, at the end of it, or at the end of the summer.

I can't believe that everyone is praising him for his selflessness in letting youth have its day. There are two ways of being selfish - playing on to get your 100 caps when you're not really up to it is one way of being selfish. Quitting halfway through a series so you can go out on a "high" is also selfish.

The fact is, England don't really need to play a spinner at Headingley, we need an extra batsman. If we play that extra batsman now, it will be Collingwood, which means we go into a tough Test match with two of our key batsmen having three caps between them. That's not a great situation to be in! I hope that Colly and Strauss go out and hit big scores, and I am big fans of them both, but the fact remains that they are inexperienced, and playing two of them in a side will give the New Zealanders hope. It may well be that because of this, we play Ashley Giles. I don't know what the selectors will do. But what I do know is that to have made Andrew Strauss wait two more Tests, or to have made Butcher and Trescothick or Giles work a bit harder, would not have been the end of the world. It would not have prevented the development of a new team, or stifled the development of young players.

If Nasser had instead gone at the end of this series, that would have given his replacement four Tests against the lesser challenge of the West Indies, without harming the side's success. The need for youth (or at least new players, Strauss and Colly not being all that young!) must always be weighed up carefully against the need to compete, and the need to put out the best side.

Only last week Nasser was saying "I'm the guy you want at 10-2". What's changed? He's still the guy we want and need. Nasser could have taken a leaf from Gary Kirsten's book. When Kirsten chose to retire earlier this season, he didn't go after he'd hit an important century in the first Test against NZ. He stayed on till the end of the series with NZ, and played his part in a crucial stand that saw his side win the last Test and draw the series. That's going out on a high.

I think that's rather a mean spirited way to look at, Sostenurter

At the end of the day, England may well want to play an extra batsmen at Headingly, but what about after that? At some point very soon there was going to be a difficult decision to take about who to leave out - Hussain has solved this problem. Yes, it is a little selfish in the sense that Hussain would rather leave on his own terms than be left out (his words, not mine). BUT it is also enormously unselfish that he doesn't want to be keeping young players out of the side for the sake of getting 100 caps.

Hussain was clearly going to be retiring very soon, and had clearly decided prior to Monday he was packing it in. He got to go out on a real high and I don't see how anyone could hold that against him.

He also talked a great deal about his heart not quite being in it anymore - and to be honest if he feels that way it is better for him to retire. The chances are he will start to struggle once this sets in.

I would have loved to see Hussain continue, but it is clear that for him it is the right choice. England will certainly miss him, but I have to say it is clear from what Hussain has said that he has been made to feel unwanted by certain people so perhaps his detractors within the game should take some responsibility for this too.

Hussain was a great man who has done a lot for the England side. If this is the right thing for him to do, then I will support it to the hilt.

[Whips_off_the_bails]

The Saviour of English Cricket earned the right to pick the time of his leaving. If we are 20 for 2 at Headingley, we will have to hope that someone else can dig us out of the hole, but at some stage England were going to have to learn to do without TS (The Saviour).

[kriss]

'

Having read the two posts by kirsty and sostenurter My feelings are a mixture of the two. Like Sos- I felt letdown when Nasser decided to retire However after a couple of days I can understand a little better how he felt.

To be able to go out on a personal high in this situation may be a selfish act. It just seems to me that like throwing in the captaincy last year, he was overcome by events and personal emotions and felt he could act no other way. I too would rather he had gone to Leeds and helped them to win the series there but it was not to be.

Last year England got over his resignation and recovered well against S. Africa, this year they are in a better position and I think it shows Hussain’s belief that England can carry on and win the series this summer without him.

On a personal note it was good to see Nasser bat at Lords as he once used to for England. The way he threw off his’ mental chains’ and flayed the NZ bowlers reminded me of the attacking batsmen he once was who could play shots all around the wicket.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by kriss

'


To be able to go out on a personal high in this situation may be a selfish act. It just seems to me that like throwing in the captaincy last year, he was overcome by events and personal emotions and felt he could act no other way. I too would rather he had gone to Leeds and helped them to win the series there but it was not to be.

Last year England got over his resignation and recovered well against S. Africa, this year they are in a better position and I think it shows Hussain’s belief that England can carry on and win the series this summer without him.

Kriss - I don't think it WAS an emotional decision. I think he had already decided to retire prior to Monday, and it was based on the rational fact that very soon there was going to be a difficult situation for the selectors. I think most of us wish he was carrying on...for one thing watching England won't be the same without Nass, but in terms of selection I don't think he has left too big a problem, as we seem to have quality batsmen queing up at the minute! of course, if it iS 20-2 at Headingly we will all be missing Nass!

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Whips_off_the_bails

The Saviour of English Cricket earned the right to pick the time of his leaving. If we are 20 for 2 at Headingley, we will have to hope that someone else can dig us out of the hole, but at some stage England were going to have to learn to do without TS (The Saviour).

Too true!!! I bet Collingwood is rather nervous at the moment (assuming they opt for the extra batsmen!)... how do you follow Nass?!

[kriss]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

Kriss - I don't think it WAS an emotional decision. I think he had already decided to retire prior to Monday, and it was based on the rational fact that very soon there was going to be a difficult situation for the selectors. I think most of us wish he was carrying on...for one thing watching England won't be the same without Nass, but in terms of selection I don't think he has left too big a problem, as we seem to have quality batsmen queing up at the minute! of course, if it iS 20-2 at Headingly we will all be missing Nass!

I agree with you it wasn't a snap decision but it was a heartfelt decision. To go when you are wanted, and it may be proved if things went badly for England still needed, as a controversial thing to do. Critics would blame him if there were batting collapses in this series.

Of course someone like Nasser a person of conviction and passion would have weighed up the consequences, but as i said before, he thinks England will go on and prosper this summer.
As for putting more expectation onto the existing players, this is a good thing. I want to see the middle order deliver with more consistency. As you said there is strong competition for batting places with good players putting in their claim for a test place.

I don't want to bash Mark Butcher every other post but I think Naz's decision to go saved his place. Now butcher has got to show some return for being in the team for Leeds.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by kriss

I agree with you it wasn't a snap decision but it was a heartfelt decision. To go when you are wanted, and it may be proved if things went badly for England still needed, as a controversial thing to do. Critics would blame him if there were batting collapses in this series.

Of course someone like Nasser a person of conviction and passion would have weighed up the consequences, but as i said before, he thinks England will go on and prosper this summer.
As for putting more expectation onto the existing players, this is a good thing. I want to see the middle order deliver with more consistency. As you said there is strong competition for batting places with good players putting in their claim for a test place.

I don't want to bash Mark Butcher every other post but I think Naz's decision to go saved his place. Now butcher has got to show some return for being in the team for Leeds.

Well, frankly anyone criticesing Hussain if things go badly for England can sod off - enough of them were pushing for him to be left out of the side before he retired.

With regaurds to Butcher, I'm not sure...since it seems likely the extra batsmen will play, Butcher would still have had a shot at redemption at headingly...if he had done well there then the selectors would have had to make a tough call.

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by sostenurter

But this does not change the fact that, to my mind, Nasser has let this side down by retiring in the middle of the series at short notice. If he was going to quit he should have done so before this series, at the end of it, or at the end of the summer.

I can't believe that everyone is praising him for his selflessness in letting youth have its day. There are two ways of being selfish - playing on to get your 100 caps when you're not really up to it is one way of being selfish. Quitting halfway through a series so you can go out on a "high" is also selfish.

Sossy

I do understand your views, what you're saying and why you're saying it, but I don't really agree with them.

Whilst I fully accept you're entitled to your view (as everyone is) and I'm not going to try and make you change your view, I do want to try and point out the 'bigger picture' and some of the problems Hussain was wrestling with in making his decision - it was nowhere near as straight forward as people would like to think.

Hussain, publicly stated he'd being pondering this decision for some time, and that it was going to be a very difficult decision to take and make whenever he decided to retire. There were a lot of factors here that he needed to take into consideration - many of which you've pointed out in your post.

Whenever anyone makes this kind of decision, particularly someone that has had such an influence on in previous proceedings, it will upset some people and please others - that's the nature of the beast. What you're effectively saying is Hussain should have put Team and Country first and suffered the consequences of this action - whatever they may have been, in your mind that was the unselfish act.

I think the biggest problem Hussain wrestled with was his own current form. He's not been in the greatest of form recently and I think his biggest concern was one of actually letting the side down, that's the kind of man he is, he's a proud man, and knowing he was coming to the end of his career he wanted to go out on his terms - not someone elses. He effectively 'dropped himself' rather than suffer the ignominy of being dropped by the selectors - which could well have happend had he failed to make any significant contribution in the next or last Test Match. With Strauss staking a claim to a Test place, the selectors may well have been very tempted to drop Hussain and bring in Strauss.

Hussain wanted to make 100 Test Caps, but only because that would have produced the kind of achievement to his career that would be worthy of retirement - to go out on a 'high point'. How do you think he would have felt had he put 'Team and Country first and then suffered the humiliation of being dropped 1 or 2 matches short of his 100 Caps?

His decision to retire was made taking all these considerations into account, and on balance decided that the first Test provided the perfect opportunity to go out in the 'high point' he wanted. Lets face it - had this been a film of Hussain's career - a script writer could not have written a better 'fairytale' ending to a wonderful career.

A selfish act? yes perhaps, for the reasons you give. But surely no-one who's followed Hussain's England career over the past 10 years would deny him the wonderful opportunity provided at Lord's to retire on a fairytale ending to a wonderful career.

As I've said, you're right in the sense that retiring now could be seen as a selfish act, but thats a cold, hard, logical way of looking at it, Hussain's an emotional, sensitive, proud man, and for once in his life he decided the decision made from the heart would overule the decision to do the 'right thing'.

I fully admit that Nas is one of my Cricketing Hero's, and always will be, I was just pleased he had the opportunity to go out on the kind of high point he'd been looking for - that befitted the end of a career of such a wonderful Captain, batsman and person, I'm just sad I wasn't able to be there in person to witness his final innings.

Scott

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

Well, frankly anyone criticesing Hussain if things go badly for England can sod off - enough of them were pushing for him to be left out of the side before he retired.

With regaurds to Butcher, I'm not sure...since it seems likely the extra batsmen will play, Butcher would still have had a shot at redemption at headingly...if he had done well there then the selectors would have had to make a tough call.

You tell em Kirsty !!!!!

People will always criticise Hussain, no matter what the poor guy does! England need to accept that Hussain ain't around anymore and just get on with it. They can blame no-one but themselves if they don't do well from here onwards.

Butcher's place was never really at risk, he's a proven performer at Test level, and made that No.3 slot his own, I don't see him going anywhere soon.

The big problem now in my mind is still that opening partnership - as I said before the start of the NZ Test Series - that's the biggest problem area - I just hope they don't shove Strauss in the middle order! Although I can see they may well be tempted to do it. In many ways the Vaughan injury/Strauss proving himself on debut/Nas retiring issue will be good for England in the longer term, because they may well be forced to do something about that opening partnership. Now's a good time to do it, if they're going to do it, but could prove to be more difficult than deciding who should be left out had Hussain not retired!

I think Strauss should open - keep him in the batting position he's used to. He's inexperienced at Test level, so play him at the position he's used to. But who to partner him with? Has to be Tresco in my mind, Vaughan should drop to No.4, and play in the slot Nas played in - his chance now to play that kind of 'pivotal' Captain's innings he's been yearning to do as an opener - but kept failing!

I'd feel a lot more comfortable with that opening partnership, as long as Strauss gets a good start, I won't mind so much what 'banger' Tresco does, but he's now under the spotlight in my mind. His place is the one most under threat now, lets see how he gets on with a new opener!

Scott