Worst ever English player?

[Whips_off_the_bails]

I've just looked into this thread for the first time, and eek! Rachael frightens me with some of her views. The West Indies batsmen who faced Devon Malcom on the 1989/90 tour of the Carribean at last got a taste of their own medicine in the form of short, hostile, fiery bowling. His ten wickets in Trinidad almost brought England a second successive victory on West Indies soil. He was still bowling as quick as anyone on the circuit when he retired at the age of 37. To describe him as the worst ever England player is to risk losing all respect for one's cricketing opinions.

Unfortunately, the England management's handling of Malcolm was extremely poor, and can be summed up in Ted Dexter's infamous phrase: "Who can forget Malcolm Devon?"

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Nikhil

Who do you think the crown should go to? I have no idea, but from what I have seen, Giles/Afzal can be a candidate.

Nikhil - Giles is certianly a long way from being a great English player, but since he is slowly but surely inching his way to 100 test wickets he can't be the worst either.

Throw into the mix the fact that Giles has saved countless games for England with the bat, and I think you'll find that there are probably a heck of a lot more players who have contributed less to the side, and are therefore much worse than him.

Once again, I repeat that without Giles we would have lost 3 - 0 in Sri Lanka last winter. No one can disagree with this - it is a fact!!!!!

Have you never seen Eddie Hemmings? Ian Sailsbury? Ed Smith? Now THEY were truely bad!!!

[Whips_off_the_bails]

Some of these choices surely reflect our respective ages. No one who saw Richard Ellison devastate the Australians in 1985 could possibly nominate him for a "worst-ever" short list.

What has to be remembered is that, as bad as the Illingworth era was, it actually represented (particularly in its early days) a huge improvement over what went before. Easily the worse era for cricket in my recollection was Peter May's stint as chairman of selectors from 1985 to 1988 (he wasn't so bad in 1982-5), when England fielded a different 11 in virtually every match. Another notorious quote, from insurance broker Peter May: "Cricket is not my business, you know". Unfortunately, I'm not old enough to have seen him as a Test player, so my abiding memory of May is as a twittish part-time chairman of selectors.

So during the period just described many players who might have had good England careers were selected and discarded with bewildering rapidity and little discernible policy. Equally, some players who probably had no business wearing an England shirt were also thrust briefly into the limelight. The England cap was devalued.

[Whips_off_the_bails]

So who would I nominate? Ian Salisbury, I suppose, despite some great efforts with the bad. His test career figures are truly awful, and in fact I think I read somewhere that they were the worst in the history of test cricket.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Whips_off_the_bails

So who would I nominate? Ian Salisbury, I suppose, despite some great efforts with the bad. His test career figures are truly awful, and in fact I think I read somewhere that they were the worst in the history of test cricket.

I think he does - he couldn't cut the mustard for England at all.

Still, has been a good servent to county cricket.

[R W S]

Good Morning friends. This weekend sees the official ending of the domestic football season. Cricket will now have a chance to claim the sports pages until the Euro2004 competion gets underway. Myself & Sostenurter have vested interests in the result at Cardiff this afternoon - good luck to Palace and their opposition.

Now onto an apology of sorts. I seem to have riled some with my list of candidates for the position of 'Worst Ever England player'. Being of a methodical mindset I looked at the list of players that had represented England. I then chose those that, in my cricketing experience, had made no positive impression upon me. This of course does not make them bad players - or even the worst.

I have no fond memories of Steve Watkin & stand by my impression that he was not a good player for England. Also, Richard Ellison (who debuted alongside Aggers in the 'blackwash' series of '84) failed to register any affections with me.

I'm sure if I were to spend some time reviewing each individual I would find some of the qualities that led the selectors for choosing them in the first place.

I now see the error of my approach. I should go with my instinct and whilst admiring Sailsbury's compelling claims I side with Ernest in choosing Derek Pringle from the Peter May era.

Wisden overview
When the chairman of selectors Peter May plucked 23-year-old Derek Pringle from Cambridge to the England team in 1982, amateur psychologists had a rare treat. People speculated that May, a man with four daughters, saw in Pringle the son he never had. He was certainly not the son he would have expected. The most fluent undergraduate stroke player in a generation turned out to be primarily a medium-pace bowler who could use his 6ft 5in to generate swing and bounce and play occasionally effective innings in the mid to late-order. He hardly thought like the strait-laced May either: Pringle, the first England cricketer to wear an ear-ring, had eclectic tastes in reading, slightly outre tastes in music and lateral thought processes. Spectators, especially outside Essex, derided him constantly – as an ungainly under-achiever who lumbered round the field. But he retained the confidence even of captains as stern as Graham Gooch, since he was adaptable, dependable and, beneath the unconventional veneer, loyal. His overall record with bat and ball was unimpressive for someone who played 30 Tests. May – who disliked the press – might have been more horrified by his subsequent career as cricket correspondent of The Independent, latterly, The Daily Telegraph. Matthew Engel

[Whips_off_the_bails]

Painful though it is to rush to the defence of Pringle, whose column inches are even more painful than the spectacle of his batting (I once likened his stance at the wicket with his surprisngly small bat to a schoolboy peeing down his leg), but anyone who has played a couple of matchwinning performances for England cannot be described as the worst player ever.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Whips_off_the_bails

Painful though it is to rush to the defence of Pringle, whose column inches are even more painful than the spectacle of his batting (I once likened his stance at the wicket with his surprisngly small bat to a schoolboy peeing down his leg), but anyone who has played a couple of matchwinning performances for England cannot be described as the worst player ever.

It is true that while no great shakes at test level, Pringle did, none the less, have the odd moment of glory.

[Andy Mellon]

Originally Posted by kriss

Cr*p England players.

Derek Pringle

Bill Athey

Ashley Cowan

Simon Brown

Ronnie Irani

Ian Salisbury

Ashley Cowan didn't play in an international for England. He just tagged along on a tour to the Windies. Didn't play in any tests! Plus,he could only have been about 20 at the time. Harsh choice. I'm still convinced Alan Wells is the worst.

[Ali T]

mullally & malcolm weren't that bad, certainly a long way from being the worst to play for england. same probably for mcgrath. usman afzaal and aftab habib were pretty poor, as were the hollioakes (at test level anyway, who knows how ben may have developed though?).