Third test England v West Indies

[peter foy]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Wisden overview

"An action man of an allrounder, White only became an integral member of the England side after blacking out mysteriously in a street in Scarborough in May 2000. He recovered, attacked the game as if each day might be his last, and, almost overnight, became England's fulcrum at No. 7 or 8, although he has consistently been found out - like so many others - by the Australians. His batting is all about aggression, and he loves the challenge of launching the spinners over extra cover and sweeping them high over midwicket. Against the quicks he likes to hook, and isn't afraid of getting forward - even on the dodgiest pitches. His bowling relies on a muscular shoulder action and plenty of reverse swing at a decidedly nippy pace which he struggled to maintain as injuries took their toll. When White first played for England, it seemed that Ray Illingworth's Yorkshire bias had overstepped the bounds of decency. But in 2000-01 on the subcontinent, England wondered how they got by without him, and in December 2001 he hit a stirring first Test hundred in the heat and dust of Ahmedabad. He finally batted well against the Aussies at Melbourne in 2002-03 ... and then revealed he'd ripped a rib muscle while bowling the day before. England waited until the last possible moment for him to prove his fitness for the 2003 World Cup, testament to his perceived pivotal allround role. (Lawrence Booth)".

A recall at the age of 34 would raise eyebrows in the media (and probably cause ructions on the messageboards... but given that Strauss doesn't seem to be inspiring confidence and no-one else seems ready... I could certainly see a case for him.

Tom Graveney, one of the post war greats, was older than that when he finally commanded a regular place in the England side in the mid sixties after making his debut in 1949 and I need hardly remind you that Jack Hobbs, who I am told could also bat a bit, scored 100 centuries after the age of forty.

[Rachael]

Peter - you know I have no objection to selecting players at any age: if they are good enough they are young enough! Looking at the reports of Underwood in the "England Classics" XI (including Randall, Athey, Hick, Robin Smith, Allan Lamb and so on) against the WI classics (including Greenidge, Haynes, Richards, Richardson, Garner, Walsh, Ambrose)... Underwood at nearly 60 should be back in place of Giles!

[Richard Jenkins]

I think I remember White being treated for epilepsy? Or not perhaps, my memory is pretty dodgy at times. Does that explain the black out? If he is epileptic, what a performance to carry on playing cricket. I once played a match when someone had a fit, and boy it was scary, but the bloke got up and scored 50.
I always rated White with his golden arm, but the shin splints really plagued him.However, at 34 he can't have long left in the tank. Still a good call though. England went back to bowling Bucknell for the summer last year, but they didn't tour with him, so why not? I didn't know he kept wicket too. What an allrounder!

[Richard Jenkins]

There's a nice record to be broken for age, that of oldest player to play test cricket
W Rhodes played at 52 for England in 1930 . Jack Hobbs was scoring test centuries well into his 40's, so anything is possible.more recently, Gooch scored a double test ton at 40, so there you go. 34 is still young.

[Richard Jenkins]

I wish I could score 1 century before I get to 40, but I'm not going to back myself.

[peter foy]

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Originally Posted by Rachael

Peter - you know I have no objection to selecting players at any age: if they are good enough they are young enough! Looking at the reports of Underwood in the "England Classics" XI (including Randall, Athey, Hick, Robin Smith, Allan Lamb and so on) against the WI classics (including Greenidge, Haynes, Richards, Richardson, Garner, Walsh, Ambrose)... Underwood at nearly 60 should be back in place of Giles!

I know we are on the same wave length regarding team selection and there are many examples of players peaking in their late thirties and being brought back succesfully in emergencies when well into their forties. Washbrook in 1956 against Australia at Headingley was one and we all are aware of Brian Close playing the innings of his (or anyone elses) life at the age of 45 against the West Indies at Old Trafford in 1976. Gatting was another one who only really established himself in his mid thirties.

Your reference to the England Classics eleven is most interesting because I have long been of the opinion that this is the ideal one day format. I genuinly believe that this is the answer to the thirst for one day cricket. I think that the crowds would flock in their thousands to see their lately retired heroes and it would free up the present day cricketers to concentrate on four and five day cricket without being exposed to the bad habits they undoubtedly acquire in the one day environment. Admittedly they would not be able to play so many games but their is far too much one day cricket played anyway and the shortfall could be made up by combined tours of over forties playing 40/50 overs against other countries and under eighteens playing the twenty over stuff.

Just a thought.

[Richard Jenkins]

If I could pick a "Classic Eleven for England"
Boycott/Atherton
Gooch
Gower
Smith/Lamb
Botham
Russell
Hick
Gough
Chris Lewis
Devon Malcolm.
12th man Defretas
Blimey, more difficult than I thought. There's lots of players you could change, and I've not got the best bowling attack in the world .Ok, some on the list still play 1st class cricket. I've had to include alternatives cos i really can't make up my mind.

[peter foy]

Originally Posted by Richard Jenkins

I wish I could score 1 century before I get to 40, but I'm not going to back myself.

I remember that feeling Richard. Mind you I have one consolation. The only century I have even an outside chance of achieving now would be acknowleged by a telegram from the (then) reigning Monarch!

Speaking of White though he is a much underated cricketer. Illingworth forecast a glowing future for him at a time when he was still on the fringe of the Yorkshire first eleven. I don't think he is epileptic, he just had that one unexplained black-out.
He was actually born in Leeds but brought up in Australia where he was also highly thought of.

There is another very promising youngster playing for Yorkshire whom I expect to replace Thorpe when the time comes. He was born in South Africa but his father opened the innings for Yorkshire for several seasons with Boycott and his grandfather is a legend in South Yorkshire cricketing circles. The boy's name is Michael Lumb. His dad was Richard and his grandfather was Joe.

Speaking of the great Wilfred Rhodes I doubt if that particular record will ever be broken. I remember in my younger days seeing him at Headingley, more often than not in earnest conversation with Fred Trueman. They spent hours together, Rhodes relating the experiences of his past and Trueman describing to him the game unfolding before them for Rhodes was virtually blind by them. Players in those days spent a lot of time listening to the greats of earlier days. You never see it now the modern players dismiss their predecesors as old fools and claim that "it is a different game today" It is, but I am not sure it has changed for the better.

[peter foy]

Originally Posted by Richard Jenkins

If I could pick a "Classic Eleven for England"
Boycott/Atherton
Gooch
Gower
Smith/Lamb
Botham
Russell
Hick
Gough
Chris Lewis
Devon Malcolm.
12th man Defretas
Blimey, more difficult than I thought. There's lots of players you could change, and I've not got the best bowling attack in the world .Ok, some on the list still play 1st class cricket. I've had to include alternatives cos i really can't make up my mind.

Not a bad side for all that Richard and apart from Boycott and possibly Botham they are all still fit enough to play some decent cricket and what a days entertainment they would provide. It would also give some of the younger generation an opportunity to see players they would otherwise only have heard about.

[Richard Jenkins]

Oh well, at least you can score a ton on here, one hundred posts.
I wonder why they picked Rhodes. It's stange because they also picked another lad over 50, (Gunn? i think) who played in the side in the same season. Wierd.