Third test England v West Indies

[Richard Jenkins]

So on the haunting flares they turn their backs, and towards Barbados they trudge for the third test. After Batty took 5 for, admittedly aganst a very weak Carib Beer side, does the test team merit a change ? What will the West Indies produce now?
Barbados . Do England play on the same pitch as against the Carib Beer side? Does it really make a diferenc, having retained the trophy, should England now swap Batty for Giles and G.Jones for Read, as an "experiment"? Or play the same side as against the Carib beer team in order to rest key figures for the fourth test? Can G.Jones fill the boots of Butcher or Thorpe or Hussain when they retire, which can't be long now? Could he open?
More questions than answers.
My team
G Jones

M P Vaughan

M A Butcher

N Hussain

G P Thorpe

A Flintoff

C M W Read

G. Batty

M J Hoggard

S P Jones

S J Harmison



But i'm adventurous by nature. Two changes is probably unwarranted, and G.Jones opening may be a bad idea.

[Rachael]

I've yet to see Jones bat... but reading assorted reports on his innings yesterday he sounds anything but an opener: keen to swing the willow and middle the ball in the manner of a lower middle order player - more one to cane things to all corners of the ground than to see us through the first torrid session where the ball is dominating, wear down the bowlers and put us into a position to exploit the more favourable conditions to follow.

Few players seem to have the versatility, these days, to move from graft to craft as the match situation demands. Vaughan and Thorpe, obviously, and increasingly Butcher (though happier on the craft) and Hussain (though, despite his origins as a strokeplayer, seemingly happier on the graft).

Curiously, I'd pick out Read ahead of any other batsman we've tried in recent years as a guy who might just have that versatility: as a ODI specialist he's shown he likes to play shots on the off-side when he gets the chance (though he sounds pretty limited in terms of shots to other parts of the park) but to his credit... he seems, temperamentally, unfazed by the prospect of grafting.

I just wish he was demonstrating the ability to go with that versatility!!!

[peter foy]

Originally Posted by Rachael

I've yet to see Jones bat... but reading assorted reports on his innings yesterday he sounds anything but an opener: keen to swing the willow and middle the ball in the manner of a lower middle order player - more one to cane things to all corners of the ground than to see us through the first torrid session where the ball is dominating, wear down the bowlers and put us into a position to exploit the more favourable conditions to follow.

Few players seem to have the versatility, these days, to move from graft to craft as the match situation demands. Vaughan and Thorpe, obviously, and increasingly Butcher (though happier on the craft) and Hussain (though, despite his origins as a strokeplayer, seemingly happier on the graft).

Curiously, I'd pick out Read ahead of any other batsman we've tried in recent years as a guy who might just have that versatility: as a ODI specialist he's shown he likes to play shots on the off-side when he gets the chance (though he sounds pretty limited in terms of shots to other parts of the park) but to his credit... he seems, temperamentally, unfazed by the prospect of grafting.

I just wish he was demonstrating the ability to go with that versatility!!!

Good morning Rachael,

On the subject of Read and Jones it is interesting that in his one appearance on this present tour Jones conceded 13 byes. Just three less than Read conceded on the entire tour of Sri Lanka. I see Jones as an excellent choice for the one day side and when Giles is playing in the Test side I would drop Read down to number eight.

On the subject of an alternative choice to open the batting for the forthcoming series this summer I would look at Craig White. He has played some excellent innings for Yorkshire from that position and whilst his days as a front line bowler may be numbered his batting does not seem to have been affected by his troublesome injuries which have so badly restricted his career. Just as a matter of interest he is a more than useful wicket keeper as well.

[Rachael]

Oh - I'd forgotten that White started life as a 'keeper. I believe he's intending to return to the bowling fray this year as well: don't think anyone is expecting him to be cranking down balls at 91 mph with reverse swing... but last I heard he was in the nets preparing to shoulder at least some of the workload.

I'd noticed he held down a Yorkshire place with the bat alone last year.. but I must admit I never once saw him.. and didn't notice much in the way of discussion of how wel he did. I guess from what you are saying he looked the part: any particular strengths?

[Rachael]

Grrrr. I can't get ANYTHING to work on cricinfo: I wanted to look up White's stats from the last domestic season but they are loacked away behind "website not responding" messages!

[Rachael]

Got it:

2003 ENGLISH FIRST-CLASS

Batting & Fielding M I NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 Ct St
All First-class 10 16 3 644 173* 49.53 2 3 4 0
County Championship 9 14 2 592 173* 49.33 2 3 4 0

[Rachael]

Ah - very misleading average that: he managed an unbeaten 173 which raised his domestic average from 36.2 to 49.5!!!

[peter foy]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Oh - I'd forgotten that White started life as a 'keeper. I believe he's intending to return to the bowling fray this year as well: don't think anyone is expecting him to be cranking down balls at 91 mph with reverse swing... but last I heard he was in the nets preparing to shoulder at least some of the workload.

I'd noticed he held down a Yorkshire place with the bat alone last year.. but I must admit I never once saw him.. and didn't notice much in the way of discussion of how wel he did. I guess from what you are saying he looked the part: any particular strengths?

I haven't had the opportunity to see him bat recently as Belgium TV shows even less first class cricket than the beeb and I do not have access to Sky but when I have seen him in the past he has always looked to be a well organised orthodox
batsman capable of occupying the crease or long periods but moving the score along when required.

He has just been appointed captain of Yorkshire and I think that was on the assumption that he would be available, injuries permitting, for the whole season. If this is the case he might well adopt the traditional captain's role of batting number six and bowling first or second change. He is a fine all round cricketer who like Hick and Ramprakash has never quite fulfilled his potential partly through injury but also having suffered from being badly handled, especially by Atherton. Illingworth recognised his potential at an early age but Atherton never rated him. He suffers like the two batsmen mentioned above from a lack of self confidence.

[Rachael]

Wisden overview

"An action man of an allrounder, White only became an integral member of the England side after blacking out mysteriously in a street in Scarborough in May 2000. He recovered, attacked the game as if each day might be his last, and, almost overnight, became England's fulcrum at No. 7 or 8, although he has consistently been found out - like so many others - by the Australians. His batting is all about aggression, and he loves the challenge of launching the spinners over extra cover and sweeping them high over midwicket. Against the quicks he likes to hook, and isn't afraid of getting forward - even on the dodgiest pitches. His bowling relies on a muscular shoulder action and plenty of reverse swing at a decidedly nippy pace which he struggled to maintain as injuries took their toll. When White first played for England, it seemed that Ray Illingworth's Yorkshire bias had overstepped the bounds of decency. But in 2000-01 on the subcontinent, England wondered how they got by without him, and in December 2001 he hit a stirring first Test hundred in the heat and dust of Ahmedabad. He finally batted well against the Aussies at Melbourne in 2002-03 ... and then revealed he'd ripped a rib muscle while bowling the day before. England waited until the last possible moment for him to prove his fitness for the 2003 World Cup, testament to his perceived pivotal allround role. (Lawrence Booth)".

A recall at the age of 34 would raise eyebrows in the media (and probably cause ructions on the messageboards... but given that Strauss doesn't seem to be inspiring confidence and no-one else seems ready... I could certainly see a case for him.

[peter foy]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Ah - very misleading average that: he managed an unbeaten 173 which raised his domestic average from 36.2 to 49.5!!!

The 173 not out might have distorted his fgures a little but it proves he is capable of making big hundreds.