The Butcher vs Key Debate

[Occasional Fan]

This incumbency business is wildly over-rated! Heck, I've been the incumbent in every job I've ever been fired from when the powers that were found someone who could do the job better. Tony Blair is the incumbent Prime Minister of the UK, for Pete's sake - and that's one that I'd certainly like to see reviewed every few years. In fact, one review would have been fine in that case, but enough said! Never mind the incumbent: he's only a candidate! No special favours for him.

More on this at the end of the match.

[R W S]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Before you know it.. we'll have a top 7 of Tresco, Strauss, Key, Vaughan, Bell and Flintoff.. virtual novices in Test cricket to a man...

Trescothick 54 Test Matches
Vaughan 50
Flintoff 40

Nothing virtual about that!

[Rachael]

I think the former players generally reckon that it takes you 40 Tests to really work out what you are doing at INternational level... and I think if you check out the Aussie caps or Indian caps you'll find more than half the team with more caps than Tresco or Vaughan.

[R W S]

Originally Posted by Rachael

I think the former players generally reckon that it takes you 40 Tests to really work out what you are doing at INternational level... and I think if you check out the Aussie caps or Indian caps you'll find more than half the team with more caps than Tresco or Vaughan.

Sounds much more reasoned than

virtual novices in Test cricket to a man...

[Occasional Fan]

Well, no-one other than Vaughan comes out of this looking too hot, but to respond to the question which Zainub put at the start of this thread, I've seen enough. Butcher is the drinks man for me.

[marauding bison]

dropping butcher in place of key when butcher has hardly played for months (and on teh few occasions when he has played, to little effect) should not preclude a subsequent return to the side either due to injury etc this tour or if he is playing well for surrey and vacancies arise next summer for whatever reason. It is not as if he is that old. However I conced that in practice however it probably would, media mania etc being what it is.

How anyone ever thought one game of social cricket chez oppenheimer and one three day game is sufficient warm up for anyone prior to an important 5 test series is beyond me.

[Occasional Fan]

Welcome to the board, MB. I agree that resting an out of form/out of practice Butcher just now should not keep him out of the side for ever. Seems to me to be the right thing to do given what we have seen this past week. You're right about the short build-up period for these tests, as well. The only thing I can think is that, when the tour was originally arranged, it was coming behind a full tour of Zimbabwe (i.e. with ODIs and tests). Seems odd that, with the Zimbabwe tour being reduced, it was apparently not possible to get in a bit more of a mid-tour warm-up programme. Especially daft given the importance of this series in the lead up to the next Ashes campaign.

[Goatman]

Welcome to the board MB. Hope to see a lot more posts from you!
It is hard on both players that they are competing for the no. 3 berth. Its probably the most crucial place in the batting lineup. A lot rests on thier shoulders.

The SA series is widely seen as a practice ground for the Ashes. I'm not quite of that persuation - this series is important too - but that has some truth to it. A win in SA would be a tonic for an already good team. To win a series usually requires getting off to a start in the first test. Winning any test usually requires getting off to a start in the first session. In a peculiar twist of fate, the success of the next Ashes campaign could rest on the man who has to go out and make what they can of whatever start has been made by the openers, good or bad. They can save a bad start, and they can blow a good one. Both batsmen will know that....

Key vs Butcher

Two things Rob Key has in spades over all the others batsmen in the ENG team are stamina and pies. Its the stamina that I'm interested in here though. Last season for Kent and in his big innings in tests we saw that if he gets into form he'll bat and bat and bat and bat and bat. And when he's out he'll come in the next innings and bat and bat and bat. And he'll just keep on batting presumably for ever or until his form finally fails. This is one of the reasons he's usually pointed out as a flat track bully - when he's in he's really in, but when he's not quite in he's awful (cf. his first spell in the test side). Key looks in OK form right now, and if the predictions are right the first pitch will be a shirt-front. Another big double ton from Key doesn't therefore look so unlikely. In the first innings of the first test that could set up the momentum ENG need to sweep the series and roll on into next summer.

So the question is: Do we really need Butchers experience? Do you think that ENG will be on the back foot from the off in this series? Thats when experience counts, and that when you need digging out of holes.

In other words, do you think that ENG are the better side in this test series?

If you don't think they are, you should go with Butcher. If, like me, you think ENG are the better side then I think you should reflect that caution may not be a good call on this one.

I go with Key.

[Occasional Fan]

Nicely argued, Goaty. Press the button then!

And of course I agree that this series is important in its own right: I should have said above "Especially daft given the importance of this series and the fact that it is in the lead up to the next Ashes campaign".

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by Occasional Fan

Nicely argued, Goaty. Press the button then!

And of course I agree that this series is important in its own right: I should have said above "Especially daft given the importance of this series and the fact that it is in the lead up to the next Ashes campaign".

Ooops! I thought I had!