The Butcher vs Key Debate

[R W S]

Butcher or Key? A tricky but luxury problem compared with the ugly alternatives we've had to consider in recent times. I look at the way the selectors handled the Read/Jones situation in the Windies earlier this year. Read got three tests and (even though we won all three tests) his contribution was not considered sufficeint to warrant further inclusion. Without lifting the lid on that volatile debate I think it shows the way towards who they would pick for the No.3 spot this time.
{remember that Vaughan got repriminded for his actions in stating that GoJo would get a set term trial in the team and was criticised for using the 'selectors on tour' trick rather than convening a full selectors meeting}

Butcher is clearly on probation - how long that is will be interesting to see, but I'd guess he'll get two tests. Partly to assuage the factors Racheal raises about getting off to a solid start and partly as a statement of qualified loyalty.

The continuity we have had is a fundamental factor in our recent success.

Butcher to start for me. But hey, I am a supporter of the team not individuals. I would like to see Key at some stage in this series and have appreciated his positive attitude displayed in the media.


Postscript:
I've just heard the skipper on Sky Sports News say that there would be no panicing despite this practice match defeat. The Sky reporter (link) gave a summary that all but confirmed Butcher will start the first test.

[Zainub]

Personally I'm still in two minds about the whole Butcher-Key debate, part of me says Key and the other part says Butcher, can't seemingly come to a conlusion. Glad I'm not in Vaughan/Fletcher/England selectors' boots. I hope who ever is selected plays well.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Zainub Razvi

Glad I'm not in Vaughan/Fletcher/England selectors' boots.

So am I, for the sake of English cricket

[Oliver]

All that blarney about Mark Butcher stepping up to the plate... "hail the conquering hero" and all that... well it's just daft. I can't quite fathom it out. He's a lefthander who made a big score in a dead rubber v. Australia three and half seasons back. He looks decidedley dodgy outside his off stump... granted Key is similar. But Key is the in-form player... and for that alone, it is he that should play.

But he won't.

How many failures will Butcher be allowed before Key is promoted in his stead?

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Drop Butcher now and it's the the beginning of the end of his involvement. Even if he gets a game in the tour due to soeone picking up an injury.. he'll have lost that "incumbent" potition. If he doesn't.. then when there's an injury next summer (say to Thorpe) Butcher will be deemed "yesterday's man" and the pressure will be on for the selectors to try someone new, like Bell.

The pressure may well be on to try someone new, just as it was many times in the past when they kept on bringing back John Crawley, Graeme Hick, Mark Ramprakash, Peter Willey, Bob Woolmer... and many, many more.

All would not be lost for Butcher, he has friends enough within the set up... and he's still quite young.

[R W S]

Note to vosser, yubeingfunny
You both voted for the 'someone else' option - please let us know what your thoughts are

[yubeingfunny]

Well if he were availiable i would have Ian Bell ahead of the pair of them, but he's not!!

Out of the current squad i'm going to make a random shout on old collywobbles - not that i expect any support on that front.

Butch does seem out of form, i saw his second innings dismissal on sky and he was woefully late on the shot, plus i have to agree with Oliver, his supporters do really live off one innings, admittedly he did well in the windies as well but there was nothing world beating about that.

My reluctance on Key is probably due to personal dislike, he detracts from the fielding - hence my preference for Collingwood, but on a more technical viewpoint he is prone to the little back foot pushes at slightly wider deliveries that a bowler of the class of Pollock is going to love, and even Ntini with his awkward angle of attack would induce that type of shot. He is basically our version of Grahame Smith, a true flat-track bully. It's all well and good making big scores on good pitches but he's a passenger on a seaming pitch.

Collingwood on the other hand is far more unorthodox, is much more of a fighter, and basically brings more to the party with bowling (which was good in Zimbabwe) and fielding. I appreciate that the rest of the order would need to be shifted up a place, but Vaughan at 3 doesnt seem that bad a prospect does it, plus Thorpe in earlier wouldnt exactly hurt!

(as another random call - Read into the team and Geraint Jones as a specialist bat??? he has been our second best batsman after Vaughan this winter!)

[marauding bison]

imho jones would have to open (or bat at three) before there would be any need to relieve him of the gloves. No disrespect to Jones's skill wielding the willow (i rate him very highly) but i doubt he is really ciut out for facing the new ball so think we would need a lot of batsmen on sick parade suddenly and without time to fly anyone in before that would happen. If we lose that many players the younger members of the press corps, physio and anyone able bodied with an english passport would be seen warming up in the nets....

incidentally i have read of rumours about mass outbreaks of food poisoning amongst rugby teams visiting south africa in the dim and distant past. also, an england cricket squad fell ill on what would have been day 5 of a test (had the match not ended in 4 days) after being served something suspiscious which was not very well heated through - possibly a lasagne. Think it was in the gus fraser tour diaries book. unsurprisingly he did not draw any firm conclusions re possible sabotage and remained ever the diplomat.

[R W S]

I can see your thinking on Collingwood and their must be some question marks about his selection for the tour (and his central contract) if he is drinks waiter for 16 tests in a row by the end of the series. I will be interested to see Bell's early season form - i wonder if we will experiment against the Banglers and use the guys that are on the fringes and at Lillies fast bowling school.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by yubeingfunny

Collingwood on the other hand is far more unorthodox, is much more of a fighter, and basically brings more to the party with bowling (which was good in Zimbabwe) and fielding.

Pringle, in today's Torygraph, points out that Butcher has frequently looked appalling at the start of a tour and then gone on to confound his critics as tours have gone on: could suffer with the ridiculously short warm up programme here.. but still my first choice.

Collingwood would be my second choice though.. and for all the resons you give. It's worth bearing in mind that Tresco looked a complete joke of a selection to most onservers when Fletcher plucked him from obscurity... and to this day looks less competent than Collingwood: however unlikely he might look compared to Key... I'd like to see Fletcher's choice try and justify the faith.

I suspect that if Flintoff picks up an injury we'll see exactly that.. but not otherwise.