3rd Test South Africa vs England

[Milo]

Harmison seems to be following Vaughan from world number one to mediocrity.

Class or purple patch?

[Pete]

Surely he can't be that bad, otherwise he wouldn't be playing?

It's like those people who say they're suffering from the flu when they've just got a runny nose . If they had the flu they'd be in bed.

Everything seems to be going down hill at the moment for England in this match.

[Chuck Palumbo]

Originally Posted by Milo

Harmison seems to be following Vaughan from world number one to mediocrity.

Class or purple patch?

I think they are both very good players just going through a bad stage at the moment- and like when they were in their purple patch they wasn't the best in the world now they are going through a bad patch it doesn't mean they are all of a sudden the worst in the world.

[Notts Exile]

We'll find out in the rest of this tour and over the summer. Unfortunately he isn't a confident bloke so this may well wreck any self-confidence he had.

[Zainub]

His indifferent form really is a bit of worry. I'm trying to convince my self that its because he's not feeling well, Nass talked about some tonsel (or which ever way you spell) problems...I hope though that he gets his acts together.

On a more realistic note 450 would be gettable if England bat really well, like they did in Durban (there they got 570) ...500 plus would be too much I think...in any case I'm convinced Smith will bat for too long...Nass says SA have hostorically been defensive in their declarations and all...I tend to go by that view...and some how I'm still realistically hopefull of England not losing this game.

[eng fan]

All this is reminding me horribly of how SA let us off the hook in 1998 - they were patently superior, denied an unassailable lead by the weather and some determined late order batting and then managed to lose the final two Tests - the biggest smash and grab job i have seen in cricket (apart from that time Vaughan and Gough got their credit cards stolen)

[eng fan]

Even though they seem like a mentally tough side, SA historically have a reputation of bottling matches - mainly against Aus and us - WC 99, the two series against Aus recently, the series in 94, 98 and 2003 in England, all three of which they should have won.

[Chuck Palumbo]

Yes I'm hoping SA can live up to their chokers tag in this test match.

[Milo]

Originally Posted by Chuck Palumbo

I think they are both very good players just going through a bad stage at the moment- and like when they were in their purple patch they wasn't the best in the world now they are going through a bad patch it doesn't mean they are all of a sudden the worst in the world.

But when your bad stages are actually longer than any good stage (see Michael Vaughan), one really has to reassess. For months this board has talked of Vaughan's class, when in reality he was average upto May 2002 and has been merely good since May 2003. Class, I think not - one giant purple patch of a year that he was fortunate enough to play a lot of tests during.

I'm pretty clear on Vaughan - we will know a lot more about Harmison after the Ashes. Jury is still out for me.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Chuck Palumbo

I think they are both very good players just going through a bad stage at the moment- and like when they were in their purple patch they wasn't the best in the world now they are going through a bad patch it doesn't mean they are all of a sudden the worst in the world.

Agreed Chuck. We don't have any bad players. What we do have are some players who aren't contributing as they should. Vaughan averaging 34 since becoming captain is obviously not performing as a number four batsman should. What do we do about that? I don't believe the problem will go away, in fact the visit of the best team in the world will only accentuate it. Our number three position appears to be an issue (though I suspect Ian Bell will fill that hole).

I'm not even going to mention the "keeper".

The bowlers are mainly sticking to the task and doing their jobs. We didn't bowl well in the first innings to be honest but it could have been a lot worse. If GBH can get back some semblance of confidence and form we will be ok there.