3rd Test South Africa vs England

[eng fan]

Vaughan is a bit like Flintoff was bowling a couple of years ago - he does get a bit of bad luck. I agree, we have to see what will happen in the Ashes. I still believe it's a mistake to make your best batsman captain. I'd rather stick with Vaughan as captain now for a good few years though than give it to Strauss and wreck him as well.

[eng fan]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

The bowlers are mainly sticking to the task and doing their jobs. We didn't bowl well in the first innings to be honest but it could have been a lot worse. If GBH can get back some semblance of confidence and form we will be ok there.

They're going at over 5 an over now - not looking good.

[Notts Exile]

The Saffers know they can go out and bat a little more freely than usual. A 270 odd first innings lead will give any team a lift!

[Chuck Palumbo]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

Agreed Chuck. We don't have any bad players. What we do have are some players who aren't contributing as they should. Vaughan averaging 34 since becoming captain is obviously not performing as a number four batsman should. What do we do about that? I don't believe the problem will go away, in fact the visit of the best team in the world will only accentuate it. Our number three position appears to be an issue (though I suspect Ian Bell will fill that hole).

Well I agree it is a massive problem at the moment as the No.3 and 4 are not getting any runs at all and its putting massive strain on the openers who are performing admirably at the moment and the middle and lower order.

What can we do about it? Well there is the option of taking the captaincy off Vaughan and restoring him as just a batsman but that would be senseless considering how good a captain he is and the lack of any alternative. I feel we just have to stick with him and hope he comes good but it can't carry on like this.

[Goatman]

Its real crystal ball stuff saying whether or not Vaughan and Harmison can turn thier form slumps round, and I can never see the point of that. People just tend to swing way too far in response to events - Harmison got 7-12 = best bowler of all time. Harmison bowls a load a cafeteria stuff = worst bowler in the world. Both suggestions are a bunch of ****. Its not remotely rational talk.

After the Sabina Park match it was fair to say that Harmison was a good but patchy bowler, who is capable of being absolutely devastating when he gets into a good channel. Nothing in that has changed whatsoever. There is no basis at all for saying it was a purple patch, just as there is no basis for saying this is a unique low patch due to a virus that destroys the central bowling system and kills the natural away swinger stone dead. Though, it has to be said that I've contracted that virus a few times in my life so I know its real.

Likewise for Vaughan. All batsmen apart from the very best (Tendulkar-class) are either slow starters (like Hayden, or Kallis) or have slumps (like Ponting, Inzi, Lara, Laxman...........etc.). I would argue in fact that the slow starters actually have slumps too - the fact that thier form seems to have risen to a plateuax and them slides away is often put down to an arbitraray "learning - mainstream - aging" transition without any real justification. It can equally be that thier slump was at the begining, so no-one noticed it.

In 2 years time we will know which way it is. In the meantime, we have to put our faith in them. It is very unlikely that ENG have a second once-in-a-generation fast bowler hidden away in the cupboard. Its not liek Harmison is keeping Malcolm Marshall out of the team. They have to get 100% behind Harmison and give him every chance and opportunity to get back to top form. It is also unlikely that any of the younger batsmen can replicate the form Vaughan showed against AUS - very, VERY few batsmen do that. And so equally, the management have to get behind him and give him every chance to get it back.

Comments about these two either way are just a whole lot of hot air.
Gibbs out. Thank God for that.

[Chuck Palumbo]

Flintoff has picked up his 100th wicket- well done big man.

[eng fan]

Well said Goatman.

[Trescothick]

I'm glad they didnt enforce the follow on.. Hopefully Strauss and Tresco can come on and play for the draw just defending everything... We just want to defend eveyrthing even if we score at 1 an over

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Goatman

In 2 years time we will know which way it is. In the meantime, we have to put our faith in them.

Can we really wait 2 years for Vaughan?

I definitely agree with you about Steve Harmison though. Having a few bad games doesn't make him the worst bowler in the world. It is frustrating to see him bowl the same crap all the time though. He'll get hit for 4, but still bowl those 4 ball deliveries all the time.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Goatman

Comments about these two either way are just a whole lot of hot air.

I say drop both of them!!!

On a serious note all players have form slumps. You get the feeling with both players though that a big score or a few quick wickets is on the way. It is just a matter of when.