Day 3, 4th Test - SA vs Eng - Johannesburg

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by Maranello

On a related note, England's over rates today were diabolical.

Can't argue with that, Maranello. Seven hours' play today and only 91 overs bowled - that's 14 short, or 13%. I was clear enough late last year that Ganguly should be hauled over the coals for that sort of display, and to give MPV the consistency which he thought was lacking yesterday, I'd have a chunk of his fee for this. (No suspension, as it's not a second offence like Ganguly's was, but he's got to take the rap for this performance.)

[Ernest]

Well I think England had a good excuse for the poor over rate today, we had Harmison injured, which meant extra burdon on the other three bowlers.

Another factor, how can you keeep an over rate up, then the fielders keep having to retreve the ball from over the boundary rope, and that happened a lot of times of Jimmy Andersons bowling, and also Steve Harmisons bowling.

Also with only three pace bowlers in that heat, they can't be expected to run back to theur starting marks, no it has been a hard slog, for Englands bowlers today.

[Maranello]

True, if MPV gets hauled across to the headmaster's study for this, it will be the first time and hence only a fine should be sanctioned, but nevertheless, this is not the first time he has been guilty. There were deliberate slowing tactics at CT, and the fact that he got away set a negative precedent.

I agree that Ganguly's suspension was merited according to the rules, but I feel slow over-rates are not really an issue in ODIs. The only one who loses in ODIs is the TV company or its scheduler. The crowd still gets to see the full quota and both teams face their alloted overs, no matter how long it takes. In Tests, it is a wholly different story; not only do the crowd get short-changed, but slow over-rates have been used by teams over the years to gain an unfair unadvantage and to implement negative tactics, and are thus, in their worst form, akin to cheating. The officials hence need to consistently enforce the rules here; maybe fining and then suspending the captain alone is not the best option, but definitely one that should work.

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

yes as you said slow over rates are MUCH more important in tests and do/can affect the outcome of the match.... as i said, what about the 2nd test? what if proper over rates had happened... could england have bowled the saffers out, took those last 2 wickets? there would have probably been enough time!

[Occasional Fan]

They're all valid comments, Ern, but I don't think they offer an excuse. The target rate is set at 15 an hour, and everyone knows it. Captains have a duty to hit it, and if their bowlers are getting carted all over the park, well, they have to find a way to deal with that. I'm not very happy at having been suggesting that Michael Vaughan should be facing the referee two days running, but he's not above the law or the code of conduct. I think Clive Lloyd owes it to everyone involved in the game to have a word with him. He seems to have got away with what I thought were very offside comments about the umpiring yesterday.

One comment to Maranello: I'm not all that happy with the comment that Vaughan has been guilty more than once, as he hasn't faced a charge yet. That's just me being pedantic and quasi-lawyerly though - quite possibly he should have been charged already. I do agree with you that there is a prima facie case to answer tonight.

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by Occasional Fan

He seems to have got away with what I thought were very offside comments about the umpiring yesterday.

He didn't. Just heard on the BBC that he was fined 100% of his match fee.

[Occasional Fan]

Just in the interest of balance, Alison has just pointed out in another thread that the England innings was 124 overs - which should be just over four sessions. They took five sessions to deliver. So Graeme Smith is also far from immune from the criticism we have so liberally dished out to Michael Vaughan in the above posts, over-running by something roughly around 25%. I'm not using that to argue that Vaughan is innocent, just to balance the account a bit.

[Alison]

Does anyone actually keep to the over rates? It seems to be a very frequent complaint that teams have slow over rates.

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

well england were quite a bit slower than the saffers. also weather played a big part in the s. africans taking 2 days to bowl 124 overs. quite a bit was lost to rain wasnt it? and then bad light or something

[Occasional Fan]

I certainly can't remember the last time there were more than 90 overs bowled in a day, so the answer is "No"! I also think the fines for captains who infringe are just not working to address this. Some more meaningful sanctions are desperately needed. There's a thread on that issue here,