Vaughan fined for comments re umpiring

[Zainub]

Yeah, that's right. I'm not sure, but I think the team manager does a report as well.

[Alison]

Originally Posted by jot1

i heard captains write a match report after and they are allowed to point out grievances about the umpires in that.

In which case the next question would be, what gets done about any grievances pointed out in those reports? Becasue I think that if players are not allowed to make any public criticisms of the umpires and their decisions then there needs to be a system whereby if they have serious concerns about decisions which have been made then there will be some kind of investigation into their concerns. Otherwise there is a danger of there not being enough checks on when umpires are being incosistent and/or making repeated bad decisions.

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

but it would probably be impractical to investigate all captain's concerns! especially if they had to keep investigating bucknor's horrendous decisions against india

[Alison]

Well, what I was thinking was to have an 'official complaints' system for teams to make official complaints when they felt the umpires decisions had been seriously inconsistent and wrong, but which would only be used for serious complaints, and so, since they would only be supposed to use it for serious complaints, any complaints made via that system would be properly investigated.

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

so if there have been 3 bad decisions a match gone against a side, they can fiule an official complaint or something? but what action should be taken against the umpires?

[Occasional Fan]

Report from Cricinfo here.

The point they are making is that the ICC allows no appeals against the Level Two offence of which Vaughan was found guilty. They argue that, if a fine of 100% is imposed, the offence cannot be less than serious and it is therefore appropriate that an appeal procedure should exist. I feel sorry for Clive Lloyd, who is about to be at the centre of another disciplinary controversy. However, I do wonder at these sporting bodies which set up their own disciplinary procedures with scant regard to natural justice. I don't condone Vaughan's actions in this case - see above - but it must be right for him to have a right to a hearing and a right to an appeal.

Does anyone remember Rattigan's Winslow Boy, who took his case for stealing a 5/- postal order to the House of Lords? To deny him that appeal would not have been cricket.

[Zainub]

Some how OF, I'm not comfortable with this buisness of player appealing against bans/fines at all, it gives me the feeling that the match referres are being made to lose all credibility possible - first the Ganguly inccident and now this, this is all becoming to footballish..

[Zainub]

Alison,

As far as I'm aware at the end of every match, several reports are submitted to the ICC, one from the match referre, one from each of the captains, all these reports plus more reports from the ICC Umpires and Referees Manager are taken into account when the ICC reviews the performances of its elete pannel of umpires. There is, to answer your question, a system in place whearby you can lodge your complains against anything tha happened in the coarse of that match (as recently as a few months back Cricket Australia used that system to complain against the quality of the pitch used for the 3rd test at Mumbai) For details please check this out

For quick reference

Originally Posted by Official ICC website

Originally Posted by Official ICC website

The ICC has a performance management system for umpires with three key elements:

* Match reports from captains and referees;
* Video analysis by an independent assessor; and
* Feedback from the ICC Umpires and Referees Manager.


This system provides an effective means of identifying any weaknesses in an umpire's performance and enables the ICC to work with the umpire to provide feedback on his performance and identify ways of addressing any areas of concern.


Umpires are assessed on five key areas which take into account various elements of a cricket match.

The five key areas of umpire assessment are:

Key area of assessment Detail:

1. Correct decisions * out and not out decisions * calling of no-balls and wides * ground weather and light decisions
2. Coping with pressure * alertness and concentration * anticipation and awareness * coping with external influences
   
3. Player management * empathy for game and situation * level of intervention * response to player behaviour * approachability of umpire * handling of player issues * proactive in control of match * handling of on-field incidents
4. Communication * clear and appropriate signaling * projection of positive image * dealt with players equally * effective use of TV umpire
5. Application of regulations * playing conditions * equipment and clothing regulations * Code of Conduct * suspect bowling actions

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by Zainub Razvi

Some how OF, I'm not comfortable with this buisness of player appealing against bans/fines at all, it gives me the feeling that the match referres are being made to lose all credibility possible - first the Ganguly inccident and now this, this is all becoming to footballish..

I think as a matter of principle there does have to be one level of appeal. I don't want to see appeals going on forever and ever, but not to have an appeal forum at all is to imply that the person imposing the disciplinary penalty is himself infallible. I don't feel comfortable with that even in the case of Clive Lloyd. None of this is to say that I felt Ganguly should win his appeal or that I think Vaughan has a case for winning his, but I do think the justice system needs one appeal layer if it is to maintain credibility overall.

(I think it is also a problem for the ICC that, purely because they have no appeal forum for a Level Two offence, they are facing a possible court action from the PCA on Michael Vaughan's behalf. If there were an appeal mechanism under the ICC's Code, I suspect the courts would not be involved. I do believe sporting discipline should be a matter for the sporting authorities and not the civil courts - much as I feel that my own professional discipline should be a matter for the Institute of Chartered Accountants - but if they are to do it properly, they must allow for appeals against referees' or tribunals' decisions.)

[Kirsty Harris]

I really think that this fine is OTT. Vaughan made a couple of mildly questioning points, in terms of looking for consistancy. I think it is most unfair for him to be treated in this way for answering a question in a refreshingly honest way. He did not attack the umpires, he did not make any accusations, he mearly said he was looking for consistancy and he felt that the decisions taken hadn't been consistant. A small fine, I think would have been o.k, but this is totally unfair.


Ian Bothem said had he been Captin, he would most likely have got chucked in jail for what he would have said