Fifth Test, Centurion. South Africa v England Day 1.

[Ernest]

Well the last Test in the series has arrived, I dont know about everyone, but I think it has been one of the most enjoyable series in ages.
Whatever happens tomorrow, we can't lose the series,lets hope we can win 3-1.
Worries over Flintoff and Harmison, I hope GBH comes on song, if the rumours of a green wicket are true, South Africa might just feel the full force of GBH.

Please post your pre match comments, and match comments here.

Cheers.

[Pete]

Although I want to see some more cricket and hopefully see us win the series 3-1, I wouldn't be too disappointed if it ********** down all week and we won 2-1

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Well the last Test in the series has arrived, I dont know about everyone, but I think it has been one of the most enjoyable series in ages.

You really do come out with quite remarkable statements at times, Ernest: I was thinking of starting a thread asking if anyone can think of a single series, EVER, that gave quite such cause for despondency. The series has been littered with truly abject performances on both sides. Not once in four tests have we witnessed both teams playing great cricket for consecutive sessions let alone for consecutive days. The standard of cricket has, in a word, been abject.

The series between India and Australia this summer was a serious low for the sport.. but at least ONE side turned up. In this series NEITHER side has turned up.

The repeated capitulation of assorted sides around the world (Ind, NZ and Pak vs the Aussies, WI vs Eng, SA vs everyone, etc) made 2004 a year that is basically one to forget (redeemed only slightly by a spirited but vain performance by the Sri Lankans in their home series against Australia).

This series, more even than the farce that was the series between Pakistan and Australia, underlines the shocking state of world cricket right now.. which is finally closing on the point where not even a rest of the world XI would present a serious challenge for the Aussies.

How you find any cause for cheer in this series at this moment quite escapes me: I can find cheer in the promise of certain new players like Pathan, Butt, Kaneria, Clarke, Strauss, Bravo and De Villiers.. but that's about it!

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Rachael

You really do come out with quite remarkable statements at times, Ernest: I was thinking of starting a thread asking if anyone can think of a single series, EVER, that gave quite such cause for despondency. The series has been littered with truly abject performances on both sides. Not once in four tests have we witnessed both teams playing great cricket for consecutive sessions let alone for consecutive days. The standard of cricket has, in a word, been abject.

Thanks Rachael always good to hear your happy thoughts..

Personally I feel you are utterly wrong. Yep both teams have not fired, but in between you have seen some monumental performances from Strauss, Gibbs, Smith, Hoggard, Kallis and Trescothick. Watching Vaughan play himself into form and then open his shoulders and play a beautiful innings was pure Test cricket.

I can guarantee this series has brought more entertainment to many England fans than the ultimatley one-sided series against the West Indies and New Zealand.

The England comeback at Durban and the final day In Jo'berg have seen some very entertaining Cricket (oh yeah Trescothick got runs).

I really can't see why this series has left you cold. As per usual, I am guessing, you are the only person with this view.

PS I think You really do come out with quite remarkable statements most times

[Ernest]

Rachael,

Last year we beat the West Indies on their own patch, then we beat New Zealand early summer, and then we beat the West Indies again in the late summer.
The problem was they were all walkovers, no real test of Englands true worth.
But this series in South Africa has been different, we are winning the series 2-1 at this moment, but we have had to graft for it, nothing has come easy.
England got beat to make it one all, this meant a real test for England, had they got the fight to pick themselves up, and take the lead again, well they did, and nothing you can say, will make that a negative happening.
Harmison bowled poor, but I thought you would have been pleased that one of your heros "Hoggard"took the lead in the bowling, showing we had some depth,that was not a negative.
Flintoff proved what I have said all along, he is a bowling all-rounder, being one of the pick of the bowling, although failing with the bat.
Rachael are you not happy for Strauss, how he has proved his worth?.
Silly question, but are you not pleased that Trescothick showed signs of regaining his form?.

looking at South Africa, I am surprised that you did not enjoy Pollock bowling with his usual accuracy, and what did you make of Kallis, was that poor cricket as well.
I was not talking world wide cricket, but can you not admit that this series had all the drama you could wish, there was never more than a couple of sessions that one team dominated, or do you like one sided matches.
would you not agree that this has been a good stern Test for England, good preperation to face Austraia in the Ashes series?.

There are times Rachael when teams do capitulate, that is the nature of the game.
OK the cricket to a degree was not the best, from a purist point of view, but to those that matter, the supporters who pay to watch the cricket, thay have been rewarded ten fold with the suspence and drama of this series, much better than last year.

I think you are disapointed that the likes of Thorpe and Butcher, and Vaughan did not perform, well they can't do it all the time, same with Flintoff I would have like to have seen him flay this attack, but it was not to be.

[Rachael]

How many days have we had so far in this series in which both sides have come off the field thinking they've played well? How often have days actually been won by players doing WELL rather than by players doing BADLY? At the end of 4 Tests the list of players who have not looked up to playing test level cricket looks huge.

At the very least it reads: Butcher, Key, Dippenaur, Amla, Van Jaarsveld, De Bruyn, Flintoff (batting), Jones (batting AND keeping), Tsolekile (ditto), Hall (batting and bowling), Boje (ditto), Steyn, Anderson, Harmison.

That's almost an entire squad!

Strauss and Kallis apart (and not without reservation: even they've accumulated some shockingly poor dismissals between them), few of the others have had a totally convincing series: althought Ntini's been as consistently convincing as anyone with the ball without really setting the world alight.. and both pollock and Hoggard have had the odd glorious spell between the dross.. only Langveldt will actally be going away from the first 4 matches with his head held high - and the fact that the batting on both sides has failed dismally despite the atrocious nature of the bowling speaks volumes.

Taking an objkective viewpiint.. this series has been far, far less worthy than the equivalent series last year in Sri Lanka: at least out there we had the encouraging signs of Sri Lanka finding depth in their team and becoming more resillient on home soil... and England were able to relish some impressive knocks from Vaughan, Thorpe and Butcher, some fantastic glovework from Read and quite unexpected quality from Giles and Flintoff - the positves here have been far harder to spot.

Both sides should really be reflecting on the fact that they've played badly enough to have been 4-0 down: but for Strauss, England would be.. and but for Kallis, SA would be.. and if either side had been able to bowl out tail enders with no clue how to bat then not even Strauss or Kallis would have made any difference.

The SA should, I guess, be slightly more cheery than the English.. if only because they hit far lower depths in the months leading up to this series - but that's a poor state of affairs given the standing of these two sides in world cricket.

ps. for Ernest: I was delighted to see Hoggard get the ball int he right areas on the final day in the last Test... but are you not taking note of the fact that only two of those seven wickets were actually taken? The rest were gifted by truly appalling batting... of a level that one expects more from Bangladesh or Zibabwe than from a frontline Test nation.

pps. how many wickets have actually been taken by good bowling in theis entire series? 1 in 6? Given the ratings of the players involved... that's quite shocking.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Taking an objkective viewpiint.. this series has been far, far less worthy than the equivalent series last year in Sri Lanka:

So being two one up going into the final test is better than losing one-nil and being outplayed for the first two Test... Nope you really have lost it

Originally Posted by Rachael

The SA should, I guess, be slightly more cheery than the English.. if only because they hit far lower depths in the months leading up to this series - but that's a poor state of affairs given the standing of these two sides in world cricket.

Much much happier than England, way more.. This is nonsense, you are talking nonsense. Nobody in SA will be happy with this result than England..

[R W S]

I have thoroughly enjoyed this series - from an entertainment standpoint. I agree with FF in that it has given me more pleasure (to date) than the home series victories of last summer.

But there is a concern that the England performances overall are not as good as they could - or should - be. After the summer Vaughan described the England team as perfoming at 70% of capacity. I couldn't suggest in all honesty that England have performed above that level against the Saffers. Our main strike bowler has misfired along with the support bowlers, our sheet anchour has batted (except on one occasion) poorly. The keeper has come in for critisism and our star allrounder has fired blanks from one barrel of his shotgun. The skipper has come out of the tour with his reputation intact, if not his wallet, and the only real pluses are the openiing partnership, the king of the swingers and a tail that wags.

England still have unrealised potential and that is encouraging but there should be signs of improvement. This last test of a gruelling (including for us supporters) series provides such an opportunity and I would like to see us win here playing the type of quality cricket I think they are capable of.

South Africa's problems are largley of their own making with a bizzare selection policy and coach.

Rachael does paint a bleak picture (and I wonder if she could back it up by referencing the overall index of PwC/LG - a figure per team should provide proof that standards are on the way down) but I would require more evidence than the subjective view she offers - even if my gut instinct agrees with her!

Even if what se says is true it doesnt upset me as I follow a team on the up (however slowly).

[Rachael]

Contrast this series with the Sri Lanka vs Australia series of a few months back and I think you see a gulf in quality that is undeniable: in that series, both sides played to a level that would have made them worthy winners.... and it was unfortunate that one side had to lose. Both teams came away heartened by the experience of having played good cricket in a very tough series.

I'm not sure that anyone prepared to do the decent thing and take a neutral standpoint could say the same of the cricket in this series: we've seen some of the most horrific days of cricket either side have seen in decades... from the one where the SA bowlers barely got a ball in the right areas all day and served up runs on a plate.. with Pollock bowling possibly the worst he's done in a decade and the rest doing even worse than that... to the first SA innngs of the last Test....where Hoggard's most dismal performance of the tour so far was the pick (he himself admitted he should have gone for fewer than half the runs he did go for), Flintoff was poor, Harmison was truly dismal (spared a caning in the figures only because the batsmen would have needed advanced warning and a stepladder to get close to the wild and wide deliveries).. and Anderson bowled so appallingly as to make the rest look like gods.

I'll not even go into the batting: Harmison top scoring with a few slogs springs to mind.. but there have been abject first innings collapses from England in each Test... and all without any real help from the SA bowlers.. and the SA batting has actually left me thinking that the quite shocking WI performances of last spring (excusable only on grounds of dire preparation and (in one or two instances) inexperience) have actually been eclipsed - doubt 11 SA wickets have been taken by good bowling in 8 innings.. and that's just scary.

As I said: neither side would have grounds for complaint at being 4-0 down at this point.. and either could be. Rather than it being a shame that one has had to lose.. it's been a shame that they couldn't both lose.. as it demeans the sport to see sides winning on the back of such ****.

Let's hope both sides can sort there act out for this last Test and actualy show signs that they are worthy of their Test status.. because that's NOT been the case so far.

[Trescothick]

Comments like saying Strauss and Kallis went out to horrific blunders is silli... What do u expect from them? Double centrys each innings. But i won't comment too mch on your comments..

The series has been plagues with Brilliant performances and terrible performances and also of course the average. Its a brilliant test because its been tense down to the bone many times. I couldnt have asked for more from that last test. Simply stunning.