Englands Greatest From This Era!!!

[Ernest]

Murali will be remebered as a great!

Warne will be remembered as a great!

McGrath will be remebered as a great.

Tendulkar will be remembered as a great.

Lara will be remembered as a great.

So which player from the current England team will be likely to be remembered as a great?.

Could it be Flintoff for his explsive form?.

Could it be vaughan if we win back the Ashes?.

I don't believe a team, that is challanging for the top spot in the world. has no greats.

The last England great was Ian Botham, anyone care to nominate the next England great, does not even have to be in the current 11, couls be Pietersen.
Or one could go back a little to players like Gough, who will we remember in 2015?.

[Beny]

Ohh you know, I'm sure you'll have one in the next 10-20 years

[Paoli]

Tough. That is quite true.

I'll go further and say,

Pollock will be remembered as a great

Streak will be remembered as a great

Fleming MAY be remembered as a great

Inzi will be remembered as a great

Ashraful MAY be remembered as a great.

I think youre right Ern...The team needs that star player power

[Seamer]

I cannot think of one English player that could be placed into the same catagory of the players named above. Who in the English team is capable of single-handedly winning a test or series? Butcher, of all people, is the only one that comes to mind but he was rather to mercurial to ever be a great

[cantplaycantalk]

Could be Strauss, or Harmison if he regains his form,
Could be Pietersen or Flintoff or even Bell if he ever gets a decent run.


Ponting also.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Ernest

The last England great was Ian Botham.

You've got to be joking. At his peak he was perhaps a marginally better bowler than Gough... but not by much.... and he had moments later in his career when he was perhaps as good a batsman as Paul Collingwood.. but it's only because he did both whilst also drinking, partying, smoking dope and being an arguably quite obnoxious "lad" that he stands out from the crowd as a "celebrity".

Botham was past it as a bowler by 1982-3.. and was eclipsed throughout the rest of his career by the likes of Gower and Gooch. Ask a West Indian who they rated more and you might well find Botham rated a long way behind Atherton: the latter's was regarded as a HUGE wicket throughout his career.. where Botham struggled to command respect. I'd certainly rate Atherton as highly.

Personally I'd also rate Jack Russell up there with Botham.... and probably Gus Fraser as well... and others might have Robin Smith, Alec Stewart and Graham Thorpe up there. Vaughan has also done enough already to be spoken of in the same breath. They have all been players who have looked as at home at the highest level as Botham, ever did.

The results might not have been great these past few decades but that doesn't mean there have not been star players.

Originally Posted by Ernest

I don't believe a team, that is challanging for the top spot in the world. has no greats.

Hmmmm... maybe that should tell you something about your curious notion that this England side are ready to challenge for top spot.....

[John]

I think we have to first define what a great is?
Rachael names a number of players who I would say were good players but not Great players ie Gooch and Gower.
I think great includes a number of elements to it
1. Consistency.
2. Signifcant match winning performances. ie Botham 1981.
3. The way they play. The style of performance.
Now these three elements can play different proportions depending on the player. For example Tendaulkar is more consistent but I would say Lara has played more match turning innings. Therefore both are Greats for different reasons.

[Ernest]

Botham was a great Rachael, a once in a lifetime legend, ok he was only as good a bat as Atherton,and not quite as good as Gower and the like, but these were just very good players, not in the same class, as say Lara.

What made Botham apart from the rest

Originally Posted by Rachael

a marginally better bowler than Gough..

.
This speaks heaps, Gough was Englands no 1 strike bowlers for years, Botham was only an all rounder.

At the moment only Flintoff or Harmison look capable of ending their careers as greats, although Vaughan could yet still give a run, only time will tell.

Originally Posted by Rachael

Hmmmm... maybe that should tell you something about your curious notion that this England side are ready to challenge for top spot.

This is interesting, because Lara alone was not able to stop England, with able support from Sarwan and one or two others.
We should have greats now to be a top team, but in your quote above, I take it you mean Australia, but IMHO they have greats in McGrath and Warne, you can't take that away from them, they will always carry that title.

More to the point of your quote, are Australias greats, playing as great as when in their prime, IMHO I doubt it, that is one of the reasons I think England are ready to challenge, maybe we are not a great side, but neither are Australia anymore compaired to 2 years ago.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ernest

At the moment only Flintoff or Harmison look capable of ending their careers as greats, although Vaughan could yet still give a run, only time will tell.

Flintoff will never be a great. The only person in this England team who looks like he can end as a great is Vaughan and for him to be considered a great he'd have to recapture that form from 2002/2003 and play like it consistantly.

[John]

If Vaughan had continued his form against Australia he would of been a Great now has left himself too much to do.
Flintoff doesn't possess consistency. As I have said before a player who has not reached the top of PWC ratings can never be considered for greatness. If he is going to head in that direction playing well against the Aussies, India and Pakistan in the next year will be essential.
Harminson until recently looked as though he might enter the greats. Unlike Flintoff he started peforming much earlier in his career. At one point nearly every spell he bowled look threating. If he bowled well against SA well the sky might of well been the limit.