Australian Fear ?

[Lemming]

Are there any English batsmen feared by the Australians? We know that there are a few Australians (e.g. Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist) who cause havoc every time they come up against fearful opposition showing too much respect.

Of course, they will have worries about a few. Vaughan gave them a bit of a hammering last series, Strauss has showed he has test match calibre over the past 12 months, Flintoff is one of the biggest hitters in world cricket and Thorpe has a class international record which would place him in almost any test team.

But do any of the Australians really feel unconfident about their chances against any of the English batsmen? Are there any batsmen they will show respect? Will there be any Englishmen capable of rising to the occasion and really take the Aussies on this summer? Or will the English line-up wilt under the relentless pressure and collapse as it has done often before, losing sight of the series with them?

[Zainub]

Fear? I don't think the Aussie fear anyone (but God). And even if they are concerned about a few players, or wary that they might cause them a few problems, they'll never give any impression of that what so ever to the followers and/or media, so we'll never know, all we can do is speculate, and I'm not too good at that.

[Notts Exile]

The Aussies will be well aware of what each batsman is capable. However, they wll back themselves to exploit the weaknesses.

Originally Posted by Lemming

Thorpe has a class international record which would place him in almost any test team.

Thorpe's recent record and more recent form would not see him play in many Test sides. I would be picking Bell and Pietersen instead of Thorpe and Butcher/Key - no Surrey men in this Ashes side!

[Lemming]

I think Australia would jump for joy if you told them they would not be facing Thorpe or Butcher this summer. I'm sure they would love the chance to bowl at Bell and Pietersen instead. The way I always view things is to ask yourself who Australia would dislike bowling at most. Imagine if England found themselves 40/3 this summer, key wickets of Strauss, Trescothick and Vaughan all gone. I'm not sure I would be that comfortable seeing Kevin Pietersen come to the crease to join Ian Bell.

Thorpe's the man for me. His record speak for itself: A career average of 45 against Australia. On top of that since September 2003 he has averaged 53 with 5 100's and 8 50's. What's wrong with his recent record? OK he wouldn't get into the Australia side and maybe not India. But this guy can bat in testing times, and Australia know it!

[cantplaycantalk]

I voted Trescothic, they fear he may get injured and force England to bring in a player who uses his feet and doesn't waft outside the off stump...

Otherwise I doubt that fear is in the makeup of the Aussie squad, if you want batsmen they respect then Butcher and Vaughan would rate highly, they have done it before, Thorpe also to some extent. With the Aussie jury out on Strauss until they see him first hand.

[Ernest]

I voted Flintoff for one reason he has been on the whole, one of Englands best batsmen, quite often the best.

But my main reason is that Flintoff is capable of taking the best attack appart, he is the unknown -The Bogyman if you like.

England could be say 130-5, Flintoff could come in and play a major partnership with any from Thorpe/Strauss or GO Jones, in particular the latter two, he has dug England out of holes lots of times.

When as I expect England will have won the Ashes at the end of the summer, Australia will look at Flintoff and think "What could we have done different", and the answer will be nothing.

If Vaughan steps up a gear and plays like he did in Australia, then there will be fear, and with good reason.

[Milo]

I can't remember Flintoff digging England out of many holes. On the occasions when he has come to the wicket at 60 odd for 4, he's usually been back at the pavilion pretty quickly. His best performances (and they have been good) have usually come when the pressure is well and truly off.

[Zainub]

A lot of people start there discussions with hypothesis like if England are 30-3 or 80-5...I'm actually a believer that the first and most important step to giving the Aussies a real scare is it were is to get a big opening partnership or conversly if you're bowling first get them 30-3, nearly half my optimism surrounding the Ashes rests on England taking early initiative and then from there on in drive home the advantage. Last summer Australia couldn't beat India in Australia...reason...first and foremost amongst other things ...stubborn opening partnerships...that guy who partnered with Sehwag, what's his name, yes, Aakash Chopra, he didn't exactly set the world on fire, but a lot of starts and not even a single 50, but nearly all the time in the coarse of that 4 match series he and Sehwag played out the new ball without a lot of damage...that allowed the likes of Dravid, Laxman and even Tendulkar to later on come on and really bat with the pressure of their backs. Yes, there was no McGrath and Warne in that series, but I still think a lot will rest on the shoulders of Strauss and Trescothick, a good start will therefore be absolutely imperitive. In fact I would go and say as far as I don't see England winning unless one of the openers has a really good series and make at least 350-400 runs.

[Ernest]

Milo you are going back to the 100+ he made against the South Africans on their last tour here, it was said then he had got his 100+ when the pressure was off.

Last year he was Englands leading batsman, Ian Bell topped the final averages against the Windies I think, and that was because he had scored 70 in just one innings.

Early last year Flintoff had more than one match saving/come winning partnerships with G O Jones, also later in the year with Thorpe, and one or two with Strauss.
How could Englands top batsman last year (in real terms) not been part of major partnerships.
To put it another way, if Flintoff plays as well this summer as last summer with bat and ball, and vaughan and Harmison fire as well, my predictions of an England Ashes victory are not wild, and is more than just possible.

[Milo]

This is all irrelevant to the point you were making Ernest. He may have been one of England's leading batsmen, but this does not address the statement you made. At 13-5, Flintoff has absolutely no pedigree to suggest he can be relied on to do anything of note whatsoever.

When has he ever had a partnership with Strauss at test level?? In fact, the number of times Thorpe has shown he can dig England out of the mire (Bridgetown, Port of Spain, Old Trafford and Trent Bridge), Flintoff has fallen quickly by the wayside.

In the last two years, I can only think of the one knock in Sri Lanka and his century in Antigua whee his performance was anywhere near what is required in a crisis.