Flintoff returns for Lanashire against Surrey:16-19 April.

[greg]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Well yeah greg - this is his second outing in yonks.



Link: BBC SPORT | Cricket Scorecard

Well if you are going down the narrow path of this match/innings greg.

Flintoff will walk in the side over Hoggard, as will Mahmood, as will Anderson, or for that matter Chapple.

Flintoff had a good pre season where he played regularly so by now he should be scoring runs.

Flintoff is an all rounder and forgive me for thinking that all rounders should actually score runs as well as bowl well.

I see Hoggard has 4 wickets already in the hampshire innings so that ****es on your chips on the other score too.

[flanflinger]

On present form alone I would take Hoggard. I am not surprised by Freddies duck, his batting has been well below par for 18 months now. This is why I would not rush him back, despite the fact that by all accounts he is bowling well.

I want Freddie back as an all rounder not as a bowler only. He is good enough to bat in the top 6, but his form is not there. I would leave him in county cricket until he starts scoring runs again.

[greg]

Well of all the candidates for the 3rd seamer position (presuming Sidebottom and Broad are the other 2) for the first test against New Zealand Hoggard has certainly made the biggest impression so far,the trouble is it is only 1 innings and he needs to show us he can play back to back without breaking down again just like Flintoff has too.Anderson and Harmison are far more difficult to judge as the figures can easily lie with them both as the radar is often way off with the pair.

Hoggy out in front at the moment but don't rule out a change.My preference is for Flintoff to play half the summer first and be fully fit and have some batting form too before he comes back.I hope he does as England are a far better side with a firing Freddie but like Vaughan's knee we can't rush him back after so many problems.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

I would leave him in county cricket until he starts scoring runs again.

Well FF with respect that would be silly, would it not?. Surely it would be better to have him back as probably Englands most potent bowler, than wait until he is an all rounder again. Makes no sence.

[Aurelius]

Originally Posted by greg

Well of all the candidates for the 3rd seamer position (presuming Sidebottom and Broad are the other 2) for the first test against New Zealand Hoggard has certainly made the biggest impression so far,the trouble is it is only 1 innings and he needs to show us he can play back to back without breaking down again just like Flintoff has too.

He also bowled against one of the university sides and picked up a couple of cheap wickets. If you factor that in as well, plus possibly one more county match before the first Test, then he'll have enough overs under his belt to judge his form properly.

[Navdeep]

Originally Posted by Aurelius

He also bowled against one of the university sides and picked up a couple of cheap wickets. If you factor that in as well, plus possibly one more county match before the first Test, then he'll have enough overs under his belt to judge his form properly.

Yep, looks fine so far.

Another under the radar is Vaughan, if i remember correctly made 2 runs in that game? Also flopped in the 1st innings vs Hamps, the bowlers may save him making too many runs 2nd time around, but one things for sure, he needs runs under his belt sooner rather than later.

[greg]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Well FF with respect that would be silly, would it not?. Surely it would be better to have him back as probably Englands most potent bowler, than wait until he is an all rounder again. Makes no sence.

So you complain about our top 6 but want somebody back who would weaken it dramatically .

That makes absolutely no sense unless you want him to bat at 7 or 8 as part of a 4 man attack.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by greg

So you complain about our top 6 but want somebody back who would weaken it dramatically[..]That makes absolutely no sense unless you want him to bat at 7 or 8 as part of a 4 man attack.

Yes I do complain about the England top 6, and IMO quite rightly so.
I do get your point that if Flintoff has not yet regained his batting form which will only come with time at the wicket - he may well have to bat at 7 for a while, better that than miss out on his superior bowling.

Better than the FF suggestion that a bowling all rounder needs to be scoring like a top order batsman to get in the side - that's what makes no sense IMHO.

[darksideofthemoon]

It's amazing but Flintoff hasn't played any Tests under Moores and Moores has gone for 4 bowlers to Fletcher's five. I don't suppose Moores is going to change this four bowler idea and I keep reading that England will play 6 specialist batsmen. That will mean Flintoff coming in as a bowler. So it would look like the bowling attack will be

Sidebottom
Broad
Flintoff
Collingwood
Panesar

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by darksideofthemoon

That will mean Flintoff coming in as a bowler. So it would look like the bowling attack will be

Sidebottom
Broad
Flintoff
Collingwood
Panesar

I think DSTM that if Flintoff has not yet reached his peak again with the bat (and that takes time). Then for sure Moores will play Flintoff as part of a 4 man attack.

In fact I am not sure Moores would pick a 4 bowler attack + Flintoff, even when/if he has regained is 40 average of the 2005/05 and India 06 (in India) seasons and series.
In fact I am not sure Moores knows who Flintoff is.